Ally backstab in MP game!!!!

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STNA NarSissi
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Ally backstab in MP game!!!!

Post by STNA NarSissi »

Well i noticed that i didn t get any backstab bonus when my ally unit was in otherside of the enemy... I think this should be chanced!
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turin
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Post by turin »

Give at least one reason why it should eb changed. Don't just say "{X} should be true", say "{X} should be true because....".
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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Just as coordinating attacks, filling your ally's army holes and using healers/mages in tandem with their forces it could enhance the teamplaying experience.

"Ok, i'll put the vampire bat in the open so you can backstab, though he will die. Pray for luck"
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Post by bruno »

From the perspective that a backstab works because the defender
is occupied, I think it makes more sense to just have to have
any opponent of the unit being attacked on the opposite side.
And not restrict it to either a unit in your faction or even in an
allied faction.

As far as how it affects the game, I think by far the most common
case will be having someone in your faction on the opposite side.
I don't think the number of additional opportunites to backstab
will be enough to throw the power of it out of wack. It also
can encourage cooperation with other players (allied or just
someone working with you against a common enemy) which
I think is good for the game.
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Polaris
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Post by Polaris »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:Just as coordinating attacks, filling your ally's army holes and using healers/mages in tandem with their forces it could enhance the teamplaying experience.

"Ok, i'll put the vampire bat in the open so you can backstab, though he will die. Pray for luck"
I completely agree... That's a nice idea, hope to see implemented.
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Post by Jetrel »

I also agree - cooperation is the whole point of playing on teams in multi. Abilities complementing each other makes it fun to combine races - imagine dwarven sentinels in the first line, and elvish shydes in the second (!) .

I think the "any opponent fighting on opposite side" requirement ought to be the simplest way to code it, and does not violate the "plausability" argument:

The idea behind backstab being effective is that the units with it are units that are dimunitive in presence; units that would be easily lost in a crowd, and/or which move stealthily in any number of ways - silently, in the case of thieves, and hard to see, in the case of shadows. The idea is simply that, if anything significant were distracting an opponent, regardless of what it was, the backstabber could avoid notice.

I wonder what Dave's thoughts on this change would be?
STNA NarSissi
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Post by STNA NarSissi »

turin wrote:Give at least one reason why it should eb changed. Don't just say "{X} should be true", say "{X} should be true because....".
You're absolutely right! I should have told what basis i had on this proposal. Though i see that the others have already done that for me.

Maybe this thread should have been in the multiplayer developement section. "my wildest ideas that would never work" aka idea-forum isn't propably the best location anyway...
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Post by deserter »

I also think it is a good idea and it should be implemented.:)
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turin
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Post by turin »

I do think it might be a good idea... but, feature freeze... maybe after 1.0. (Which is probably in about a week).
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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

Why would this be limited to multi? It makes just as much sense in campaign.

I agree that it should apply when attacking opposite from any unit that's not allied to the target unit. If his attention's tied up defending vs anyone, he should be vulnerable to backstab.

Imagine the fun you could have with this in the "Xenophobia" scenario. :wink:
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Post by bruno »

I have committed a change to 1.1 to implement this.
Backstab now works when the unit on the opposite side from the attacker is an enemy of the defender and is not incapacitated (e.g. turned to stone).
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Hm... It's an interesting fix and would definitely make backstab units more usable. I'm in favor of trying it out. :)
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Post by bruno »

Beleth wrote:Hm... It's an interesting fix and would definitely make backstab units more usable. I'm in favor of trying it out. :)
Well go ahead. Just check out trunk and build the game.
However with the experimenting going on with slow, some units may be overpowered now.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

COOL! Now I can give backstab to the assassin in my scenario Assassin in the Forest. (Basically forest of fear map with AIs fighting, you control one unit, and you have to defeat all the leaders.)
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Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Elvish Pillager wrote:COOL! Now I can give backstab to the assassin in my scenario Assassin in the Forest. (Basically forest of fear map with AIs fighting, you control one unit, and you have to defeat all the leaders.)
I'm strangely both drawn to and drawn away from this scenario... ;)
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