More Classical Factions?

[turin]

Charge?

[Temuchin Khan]

Charge?

Maybe. An infantryman with charge (blade) would also be unique!

[Disto]

Personally i quite like the firststrike idea, unless the attacker has a longer weapon, the defender is going to be able to swing to hit them first, anyway it's not like it's going to be level 1 so he will be skilled anyway.

I could add your rider as a 3rd branch of the warrior, but i don't know about charge, but it is possible...

[Cuyo Quiz]

A barbarian would charge and you know it.

[Temuchin Khan]

Code: Select all

Hoplite -> Elite Hoplite -> Spartiate -- good in plains, has grouping bonus
        -> Marine Hoplite -> Thalassian -- good in shallow water, has grouping bonus
        -> Light Hoplite -> Hypaspist -- good in hills, has grouping bonus

Seaman -> Nautes -> Argonaut -- charge(pierce), good in shallow water

Horse Scout -> Skopos -- scout line; weak on attack; good in plains
            -> Hippeus -> Hetairos -- gains grouping bonus; gains attack strength; good in plains.

Staff Slinger -> Elite Slinger -> Sphendonetes -- ranged (impact), good in plains

Peltast -> Elite Peltast -> Akontistes -- ranged (pierce), good in hills


Hoplites should receive a grouping bonus. We discussed several times in this thread how that might work, but most of the ideas seemed to be unfeasible. Here's a new idea, that I posted in the High Elves thread. Since it would also be applicable here, I'm posting it here as well:

The grouping bonus will give all hoplite units that are adjacent to one another a defensive bonus in ordinary combat. However, these units will suffer a defensive penalty when ambushed or when attacked at night by a unit with "nightstalk". After all, when you are trained to fight in a straight line, it takes time to adjust to surprises!

EDIT: Added "nightstalk" as an ability that causes units with a grouping bonus to suffer a penalty.

Basically, the grouping bonus is a two-edged sword, good in most situations, but not in all.

EDIT: I just realized that if I didn't make a slight change to the cavalry line, it would violate RIPLIB!

[Disto]

I did say i would make them after i finished the Marauders didn't I, oh well it may be a while longer....

[Temuchin Khan]

I edited my previous post and added a branch to the horseman line, for RIPLIB concerns.

However, I also wondered if it might be best to cap the Slinger and Peltast lines at level 2, given that they were used primarily as support troops. What do people think?

Code: Select all

Dardan Hoplite -> Dardan Elite Hoplite -> Dardan Spartiate -- good in plains, has grouping bonus
        -> Dardan Marine -> Dardan Thalassian -- good in shallow water, has grouping bonus
        -> Dardan Light Hoplite -> Dardan Hypaspist -- good in hills, has grouping bonus

Dardan Seaman -> Dardan Nautes -> Dardan Argonaut -- charge(pierce), good in shallow water

Dardan Scout -> Dardan Skopos -- horse scout line; weak on attack, good in plains
             -> Dardan Hippeus -> Dardan Hetairos -- heavy cavalry branch; gains grouping bonus, gains attack strength, good in plains.

Dardan Slinger -> Dardan Sphendonetes -- slinger, ranged (impact), good in plains

Dardan Peltast -> Dardan Akontistes -- javelin-thrower, ranged (pierce), good in hills


[Maeglin Dubh]

I agree with capping the auxiliary troops. As mentioned, they were primarily back-up in the Greek school of warfare, and thus shouldn't (in-game) have the same degree of elitism afforded to their shield-bearing brethren.

[turin]

It should be noted now that I prefer for factions to only have 4 lines, not 5, since that actually allows for more variety between factions.

(It is true that the Kedari have 6 lines, but I've been looking into removing 2 of the lines and using their graphics for the Airiya faction.)

Anyway, I think It's past time I posted which factions I am considering for inclusion into the Era, pending graphics.

[Maeglin Dubh]

Just a thought; is it really a good idea to have the Hoplite split into three trees, effectively giving them mastery over most terrain? It seems to make them too effective. Perhaps remove the Marine line in favour of the Argonaut line...

[Temuchin Khan]

You may be right. Something like this, then:

Code: Select all

Dardan Hoplite -> Dardan Elite Hoplite -> Dardan Spartiate -- good in plains, has grouping bonus
               -> Dardan Light Hoplite -> Dardan Hypaspist -- good in hills, has grouping bonus

Dardan Seaman -> Dardan Nautes -> Dardan Thalassian -- charge(pierce), good in shallow water

Dardan Scout -> Dardan Skopos -- horse scout line; weak on attack, good in plains
             -> Dardan Hippeus -> Dardan Hetairos -- heavy cavalry branch; gains grouping bonus, gains attack strength, good in plains

Dardan Slinger -> Dardan Sphendonetes -- slinger, ranged (impact), good in plains

Dardan Peltast -> Dardan Akontistes -- javelin-thrower, ranged (pierce), good in hills


Also, I'm thinking that the Hippeus should need a large amount of experience to advance to Hetairos, since the Hetairos is based on Alexander the Great's elite troops, the Royal Companions.

[turin]

A question: would it be possible for the Slinger and Peltast to advance from the same level 0.5 unit? And have neither of them directly recruitable?

Just a thought.

[Maeglin Dubh]

I had a thought that the unit grouping bonus shouldn't take effect in certain terrains, but that might be too difficult... For example, it might not take effect in forests, since a phalanx fights so poorly in such a situation.... Not sure if that's even a possibility.

[Temuchin Khan]

I had a thought that the unit grouping bonus shouldn't take effect in certain terrains, but that might be too difficult... For example, it might not take effect in forests, since a phalanx fights so poorly in such a situation.... Not sure if that's even a possibility.

I'm not sure either, but I like the idea. In fact, maybe the grouping bonus should only function on the plains and not on other sorts of terrain!

EDIT: The Light Hoplite -> Hypaspist branch would get grouping in both hills and plains, but the regular Hoplite would get it only in plains.

Also, the Elite Hoplite -> Spartiate would have tougher resistances while the Light Hoplite -> Hypaspist would be slightly faster and more versatile.

Basically, the Elite Hoplite gains higher resistances while the Light Hoplite gains the ability to maintain a phalanx formation even in hilly terrain and gains slightly in speed.

@turin: I know we made the Lavinian auxiliaries all advance from the same level 0.5 unit, but here I think there'd be at least one reason not to: Greece is a hilly place, and it would make sense to have the only level 1 unit that is good in the plains (i.e., the Peltast) be recruitable from the start.

Or perhaps the horse scout branch of the horseman line should be good in hills. The heavy cavalry branch, which would fight much like hoplites, but from horseback, and therefore with greater speed, would be best in plains and would not gain appreciably in the hills.

[Cuyo Quiz]

I think turin is manipulating everyone so in the end all the new factions only have one recruitable unit in MP. After all, he said his preferrable limit was 5 and right now he is pushing for 4.

I think the slinger should remain separated, being the only impact damage that the faction has.