An interface for developing campaigns ...

[Samiby]

Hi all,

Thank you for all these campaigns and for this marvellous game.

When i learned we can create campaigns, i was very motivated to create one. I read aticles in the WIKI to help me starting. I wrote mainlines of the scenario, and i want to make this playable. So I must use the WML.
But ... Even if i know a bit of C++, if i develop websites in PHP and know XML, i thought it was a bit complicated. And I'm french so I don't understand english really good (and don't speak better, as you see ).

So i've got the idea to make a program for making campaigns, with a user-friendly interface. is there a project like this actually running ?
If not, it could be really usefull for players and creaters of campaigns, which don't know how make campaign.
As i know PHP, i thought it could be easy to make this program in PHP, really simply, but i think it won't be easy to creaters to use the program (installing AMP if they want to do).
Maybe C++ is more user-installing-friendly, but more complicated (and i don't know how program in c++).

It may could be both: a first program in PHP which appears in few time, and the same program in C++ after.

But first af all, i think it will be usefull to wite a tutorial to learn how programming campaigns (if some campaign-writers have free time and motivation ... ).

Thank you all !

[Dacyn]

But first af all, i think it will be usefull to wite a tutorial to learn how programming campaigns

do you mean this?

[Samiby]

Yeah .
I saw this page, but i didn't read all. Thank you.

[scott]

Let's hope WML is stable now. There have been a lot of significant changes in the 0.9 series that would have invalidated a tutorial up to this point.

[Samiby]

That's right. Changes to WML syntax will set the program obsolete, and make us recreate the program.
I didn't see it. We should wait the 1.0 version of Wesnoth to make a program like that.
Everything we do can be unuseful rapidly, you're right.

[scott]

Well, I started making a cross-platform campaign writer. It might take a while to come up with anything good. All I have is a mock-up for the campaign.cfg file right now.

[Samiby]

You already started ?
In which language ? How ? What is the main structure ?

[scott]

Well, here comes an embarrasing moment on my part.



I'm writing it in IDL, which is a language used for image processing. It's the only language I know how to write GUIs with that I have access to. Speaking of access, if I didn't use IDL I would probably have used MS Access (vis basic) since that's the OTHER way I know how compose GUIs.

How about another embarrased smilie for good measure?

Anyway, it will actually run cross-platform because you can download a virtual machine for any IDL code I write, but the point is to try to get the "ergonomics" of campaign writing down. After that someone can redo it in a real language. It's ugly on Unix/X Windows but I think it would look quite nice under MS Windows.

[torangan]

Wesnoth is already in deep feature freeze, changes to WML are very unlikely. At most some minor changes to fix important bugs but I think there are no known bugs which would lead to a WML change prior to 1.0.

[Samiby]

Torangan > Ok, so we can start the project without be afraid of changes into WML.

Scott > Working in IDL or in Visual Basic is not a shame (errr ... maybe yes, but you ... how to say ... so yes it's a cshame )
But don't you think we must wok a bit more on the project before working on the program ?
I think we should first define what the program will do (if some campaign-writers want to help you, they're welcome), then how (with a Database ? only with files ?), in which language (to make a cross-platform progam, I think java is more simple for the users, there is more people which have java than people whichhave IDL, i think, but why not ? if it's better) ...

So, before programming, i think we should have a deeper reflexion about the project .

Edit:
The goals of the program (what i think, do you have other goals ?) :
Firsts goal :
- Generate .cfg and .pbl campaign files
- Generate .cfg scenario files
And, secondly :
- Manage a project with all files (images, icons, maps, units ...), directories ...
- Create, from a project saved with the program, a compressed file which will be uncompressed in Wesnoth directory. But we can also imagine a program based on Wesnoth files, which recognize all campaigns and can create others.
[- Parse files .cfg and .pbl to import a project/campaign to the program, to work on}

[scott]

It will have to be reprogrammed no matter what. IDL is cross platform only if you download the 139 MB virtual machine. It's very clunky for making GUIs, but it's what I know how to use.

The program I'm working on will be able to make a fully functional campaign, including .cfg/.pbl files and directory structure using game images and units. It won't be able to use custom units or art. It won't be able to read an existing campaign, even one created with the program (maybe later). It won't create maps.

The purpose is to create something a newbie can use. Once the layout is set up, someone can redo it with SDL/C++. Otherwise, we're no worse off than we are now, with no one working on it.

[scott]

Here is some progress. You can use it to create a campaign .cfg and .pbl file and full directory structure. It also checks for a passphrase in an existing .pbl file and backs up your passphrase if required. I will write the scenario editor next. This first part was really easy compared to how the scenario editor will be. I'm thinking it will need an event editor as well. I don't expect anyone to want to test it out, but if you want to download a 139 MB editor, let me know.

Any critiques from the picture?

P.S. the (yet another) is a joke if you didn't know

[Darth Fool]

Well, scenarios don't have to be linear in campaigns. They can fork, branch merge, cycle, etc... Of course, making an editor that would display/enable editing of that sort of thing might be more work than you wanted to do.

[torangan]

Seems like http://www.graphviz.org/ is available for Mac as well so showing a graph with the scenarios should be possible without advanced mathematical knowledge.

[Darth Fool]

Seems like http://www.graphviz.org/ is available for Mac as well so showing a graph with the scenarios should be possible without advanced mathematical knowledge.

I am aware of graphviz, in fact I used it in the scenario follower perl script (http://wesnoth.slack.it/?ExternalUtilities) to generate graphs of scenario dependencies. But there is a big difference from having an external utility that can generate the dependency graph, and having an editor that makes it easy to manipulate those dependencies. Ok, and just to throw a real wrench into the works, consider that the dependencies may depend on what events happen. So, basically, you have to have a full blown scenario editor. Or use emacs/vi/edt/pico.