Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply

Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
51
21%
Reaper
28
12%
Scythemaster
20
8%
Shadowalker
17
7%
Shadow Prince
19
8%
Siege Troll
11
5%
Sky Goblin
4
2%
Snow Hunter
20
8%
Soul Shooter
5
2%
Swordmaster
28
12%
Troll Boulderlobber
2
1%
Warlock
24
10%
Werewolf Rider
5
2%
Zombie Rider
7
3%
 
Total votes: 241

bewbsftw
Posts: 3
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 10:09 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by bewbsftw »

Can someone explain why Elvish Seer is worth advancing and gearing heavily, and why she has more votes than Nightprowler and Faerie Incarnation?

Her main damage comes from Faerie Fire, which is trash in part 2 coz demons laugh at the arcane damage, and in part 1, she is outclassed by Lethalia. I feel like people are going "she has faerie fire, she good" like wut
Whiskeyjack
Posts: 476
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

To me these bug reports sound like dropping and equipping were simply accidentally switched, which, if the case, should be an easy fix.
bewbsftw wrote: April 23rd, 2020, 7:32 am Can someone explain why Elvish Seer is worth advancing and gearing heavily, and why she has more votes than Nightprowler and Faerie Incarnation?

Her main damage comes from Faerie Fire, which is trash in part 2 coz demons laugh at the arcane damage, and in part 1, she is outclassed by Lethalia. I feel like people are going "she has faerie fire, she good" like wut
Seer has some of the best AMLAs in the game. The base unit is relatively weak, but with some investment it becomes very powerful.

Here's the version from my latest run of part 2 (on hard):
Spoiler:
That's with 22 AMLAs and Dark Dragon Legacy. On the other hand, the units items are far from perfect.
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
User avatar
edwardspec
Posts: 84
Joined: March 29th, 2013, 9:37 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by edwardspec »

Crixomix wrote: April 23rd, 2020, 1:55 amCurrently, you CAN equip items after 2 turn from the item storage. This is a bug, as you're not supposed to be able to.
Fixed in the latest beta.
imaginarypotato wrote: March 22nd, 2020, 10:50 pm Pilum master super bad, it defends and attacks worse then everything else
Regarding the bad units,
while numerically lacking, Pilum Master is easily one of my favorite units. As a level 3 unit, it can be obtained very early, and its early AMLA levels are very cheap. It's very balanced in melee and ranged, so no enemy can attack it safely for itself. The fact that it uses the same item for ranged/melee allows to get "leeching" on the ranged attack. It is also quite deadly with a fairly common Explosionlance ("+5 impact damage" spear). And last but not least, it's an ultimate anti-archer unit due to its pierce resistance.

Speaking of powerful low-level units, I also find Snow Hunter (level 2) to be quite formiddable. With its slowing ranged attack, ice resistance and high melee damage it can even stand up to demons.

Forester is also an unpopular unit, but "struggle" attack alone is extremely valuable, and it's one of the very few units that can be used in swamps.
bewbsftw
Posts: 3
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 10:09 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by bewbsftw »

Whiskeyjack wrote: April 23rd, 2020, 8:48 am That's with 22 AMLAs and Dark Dragon Legacy. On the other hand, the units items are far from perfect.
Ah yes, I can see her being good with dark dragon. That's 70ish arcane penetration without any items. Would she be good with other legacies, though?
Whiskeyjack
Posts: 476
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

bewbsftw wrote: April 24th, 2020, 12:03 pmAh yes, I can see her being good with dark dragon. That's 70ish arcane penetration without any items. Would she be good with other legacies, though?
I can see Titans working (she has really strong melee to profit and the physical resistances + natural arcane res make it very easy to make her incredibly tanky), Light in chapter 9 (it's a permanent 40% damage buff, 40% damage reduction to adjacent demons and decent utility), Undead Legacy (never tried, because I always craft Soulrender; could craft an even better weapon and works similar to Titans otherwise), Legacy of the Free if you want to build a glass cannon ranged nuker (though some archer units might use this better).

I think Sorrow, Fire, Ice, Freezing North, and Phoenix are not well utilized and Exile is difficult to use on hard for any unit. But I think Kings, Phoenix, and the other Dragon legacies can still work well enough for a standard unit in your main cluster. You don't actually need a legacy to make her a good unit. You just need a good legacy to make it a great one.

Edit: Just did the (rough) math - Titans should give her ~10 damage per strike before items for the sabre attack plus 20% physical resistances. That might actually be better than Dark Dragon if you want to build her melee oriented (take book of magical swordplay for additional attacks if you have AMLAs to spare).
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
lhaire
Posts: 30
Joined: April 21st, 2014, 8:29 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by lhaire »

edwardspec wrote: April 22nd, 2020, 3:22 pm
lhaire wrote: April 21st, 2020, 10:32 pmAfter turn 2, there is no "Drop to the ground" option available for any equipped items. Note that in prior versions (e.g. 1.12) you had the ability to drop items to the ground on any turn. This was extremely useful in case you wanted to temporarily drop an item for a particular turn and then pick it up again.
Konrad2 wrote: April 22nd, 2020, 5:13 amAnd do I understand you correctly that the small arrow (refer to the quote) disappears from the menu after turn two?
I can confirm that this feature (to drop currently equipped item to the ground) was accidentally lost when making the new Inventory dialog.

The dropdown menu (small arrow near "Equip" button) can Drop/Destroy items that are currently in the Storage, but not items currently on the unit. So after turn 2 (when the storage becomes inaccessible) there was indeed no way to place currently equipped item to the ground.

In the latest beta, I added a second dropdown menu with Drop/Destroy near Unequip button: these allow to Drop/Destroy the currently equipped item.
Please try it out.
Thank you!!
nachkar
Posts: 48
Joined: December 26th, 2015, 1:01 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nachkar »

I've used elvish seer in multiple playtroughs aswell, and with perfect gear and dark drag legacy she became stronger then anything i could possibly make with efraim or lethalia : fast and incredibly damaging with both melee and ranged, while also tanky.
Also played her with legacy of the exile : with decent gear and the resists from exile she can do really well too !
I can see titan working aswell for sure

In fact I've played her so many times that I never do anymore, its not fun to use the same unit/combination of units to cheese trough :lol: (there's a few others I've used many times, but elvish seer is definitely one of the "biggest offender" as when I focus attention (gear and xp) onto her, she starts outshining most others)
User avatar
dabber
Posts: 464
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Unit information is integrated with almost everything in LotI, so that would never port easily. Choose attacks for retaliation should be easy to port though ... just set weight to 0 ... what problem did you have?
User avatar
lhybrideur
Posts: 357
Joined: July 9th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by lhybrideur »

One of the problem with porting pieces of LotI is that half of it is now in lua. It not as easy to understand/use than WML
User avatar
edwardspec
Posts: 84
Joined: March 29th, 2013, 9:37 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by edwardspec »

lhybrideur wrote: May 9th, 2020, 4:43 pm One of the problem with porting pieces of LotI is that half of it is now in lua. It not as easy to understand/use than WML
On the bright side, there were many places where, for example, 3000 lines of WML were replaced by 50 lines of Lua.
So it's going to make things easier in the long run.
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3333
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

Removing 'Legend of the Invincibles (beta)' using the add-on manager leads to 'beta.pbl' being left over.
GreatAlucard
Posts: 6
Joined: May 17th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by GreatAlucard »

Is the Legend of the Invincibles beta for 1.15.3 considered playable for a playthrough from start of part 1 to finish of part 2?

I ask because 1.15.3 runs MUCH better for me, so I'd rather play on it whenever possible.

Although on this version I ran into a minor(ish) bug and I don't know if I should be worried about other possibly gamebreaking ones farther ahead (since I'm still very early on in this version).

What happens is the following - When starting a new scenario my units seem unable to advance to their latest non vanilla levels, which means that when they advance, if not already on what LotI expects to be their last level (E.g Grand Marshal can't advance to neither Duke or Dragon Rider, both units exist on the debug menu "create unit" but don't show up as possible upgrade on the Grand Marshal screen), they just get a regular vanilla advancement instead of getting anything at all. The debug menu still shows the LotI units though, including whatever unit I'd expect the initial unit to advance to.

It also seems like this only happens to units that are not already on their last vanilla level, as in if I recall an Assassin he will advance into Exterminator just fine, but If I recall a Thief he will just level to Assassin and then get vanilla advancements.

This seems to be fixed if I close the game and then reload the savegame, "unit description" shows their intended advancement levels again and they are able to actually advance to said levels, although the problem reappears once I get to the next scenario.



Edit: The problem didn't occur on scenario 5, so I didn't have to reload. I don't really know what specifically caused it before. Although it did happen again on the following scenario.


Edit2: The issue now happened in the middle of a scenario I had already loaded before (doing it again fixes the issue but shortly after it's an issue again), this plus the previous edit suggests that loading scenarios for the first time doesn't really play too much of a role in reproducing the bug. Still, it's somewhat minor and easy to fix, since 1.15 loads significantly faster anyway - Unless a unit advances into vanilla's AMLA without me seeing it in time to reload, but that's not all that likely to happen.

The issue seems to also affect the experience units need to level up, I started the prison scenario with Lethalia at 187/100 experience, she killed a unit and instead of advancing into "Seer" she got a vanilla AMLA at Sylph, I restarted the game, killed a unit, she went into "Seer" and immediately got a "LotI" AMLA, but I'm somewhat sure that the necessary experience for Seer is higher than 100, or even 187, the save still shows the required as 100 though.

As a side note to that, when she did advance into "Seer" instead of just advancing I got an option to choose between "Seer" and another identical "Seer".

Upon further investigation - the decrease on "Experience Required" for the next level is caused by equipping items. Seems unrelated to the previous problem.


Edit3: The issue seems straight up related to loading a saved game. Likely what happened on what I described on edit2.

It seems that the save will work just fine when loaded for the first time, but will sometimes bug when I load a saved game whilst already playing. Leaving to the menu before actually loading doesn't seem to fix anything, whereas closing the game does. I am able to replicate this, loading a save whilst already playing always causes the described bug.

Note that even when working correctly I still get duplicate of almost every choice when leveling up, including when there aren't supposed to be choices at all. LotI AMLAs are fine though, no duplicates.


Edit4: I don't know if intended but you're never warned to unequip items from Argan, Delly and Stormrider when they leave (the second time for the first two, you're warned on their first) - furthermore, they don't drop their items on the "Nemesis" scenario.


Edit5: On Chapter 4, scenario 1, there is a bug with the "Vampire Duelist" creation script. When "Vlad" (on turn 1) or any of his duelists attack a peasant I assume it was supposed to create another vampire duelist, although nothing gets created and there's a lua error regarding it being an "Unknown unit", the vampire duelist, however, exists, and the lord appears to be able to recruit them just fine.



Edit: attached a screenshot of an error message I've been getting a few times on different scenarios. I don't really know if it's bad or if it can be safely ignored. The second one happened only once, so far, on the "Twilight" scenario.
Attachments
Bug that happened on the "Twilight" scenario.
Bug that happened on the "Twilight" scenario.
Bug that appeared several times on a number of missions.
Bug that appeared several times on a number of missions.
Last edited by GreatAlucard on May 21st, 2020, 10:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
dabber
Posts: 464
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

It has been reported many times that LotI breaks in a fashion like this if played with debug mode enabled. Turn off debug mode. Never level a unit with debug activated. I think that once you get a game in this state it is pretty much broken. You need to go back to saves before it was broken or start over.
GreatAlucard
Posts: 6
Joined: May 17th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by GreatAlucard »

Which of them?

I assume you're referring to the AI Lua bugs.

Because the other "main" one I can reproduce on a new game, at the second scenario (since you can't recruit on the first), now that I know that it is caused by loading a save it's fairly quick to test.

I also don't think just having debug mode enabled would break anything, some commands could I'd imagine. Still the save itself shouldn't really have anything from debug on it, unless "create unit" and "unit advances" break the game itself and not the save, because I loaded previous saves after testing, sometimes I remembered to "nodebug" sometimes I didn't.

What I might have saved after doing is "create unit" and then "kill unit" when I wanted to test other units. I tried to always load a save before using anything but since there is no obvious trace after doing this particular sequence I might've missed some.

Still, without me knowing how severe these two Lua bugs are I don't really know if they warrant a restart. And the other "main" thing I described happens regardless.
boyoyoy
Posts: 21
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 3:55 pm
Location: Germany, at home

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by boyoyoy »

Hey,
there is a bug with the items. My Efraim has a Rherraents sword - in the item menu, I can unequip a krux sword. If I unequip the krux sword, I can unequip the other sword. And if I unpequip this item a second time. - So If I unequip all swords on efraim I get one krux sword, and two Rherraents swords. I am not sure, but, if I remember right, I already did unequip the krux sword one time (that should be the reason, why there is already one in my inventory).
Attachments
LotI1-Schlacht um Ogira-Autospeichern7.gz
unequip efraims sword - three times!
(493.5 KiB) Downloaded 400 times
Still thinking about, if I should think about what I should think about...
Post Reply