Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Moderator: Forum Moderators
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Finally made transitions for UtBS's dark floor, so now it is now mainlined.
Not amazing transitions, but they will seldom be seen.
The transition-less custom version is still wired into UtBS.
Not amazing transitions, but they will seldom be seen.
The transition-less custom version is still wired into UtBS.
- Attachments
-
- dark-floor.jpg (132.57 KiB) Viewed 5411 times
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Yeah, that's the pain of videogame terrain. The number of combinations that have to work well together increases exponentially with the number of terrain types.Eleazar wrote:This was a lot harder than expected.
Finally found colors for the dry hills that mesh with the dirt and dry grass, and yet don't look odd with other terrain.
That looks good, btw.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Fixed the lack of lava-to-chasm transition use pointed out by Anonymissimus.
- Attachments
-
- Picture 4.jpg (109.82 KiB) Viewed 5173 times
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.
Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Plus, the transitions between "the castle trans w/ lava underneath" and "the castle trans with chasm underneath" seem to transition smoothly enough together. There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock. Frankly, I think that aspect looks good enough not to waste effort on.Eleazar wrote:Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.
Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
Seeing the orc castle on top of that makes me think it might be worth shifting the orc-castle's rocks to the color of the underlying stone. Just a thought.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
If you are refereing to the "dirt-skirt" of the bottom-right orc rock tower, I think Eleazar wants that removed anyway. (And I'll do that once 1.9 comes out.)Jetrel wrote:There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
These transitions have overlapping semi-transparent edges so they can blend together, which i don't think has been done for terrain before. Otherwise you would get a razor sharp seam.Jetrel wrote:Plus, the transitions between "the castle trans w/ lava underneath" and "the castle trans with chasm underneath" seem to transition smoothly enough together. There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock. Frankly, I think that aspect looks good enough not to waste effort on.Eleazar wrote:Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.
Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
I want to move away from the pure grey colors that used to be used for much of wesnoth's stone. I've injected a bit more brown into the chasm, and would like to add a little more to some of the cave stuff. Adding it to the orc castle would fit right in.Jetrel wrote: Seeing the orc castle on top of that makes me think it might be worth shifting the orc-castle's rocks to the color of the underlying stone. Just a thought.
The stress test for "is this castle too wide?" will be how it fits with the land-to water transitions. The dirt skirt doesn't' fit as is. I'm not against it in principle, thought if there was room for it, it would need to blend into the terrain more transparently.doofus-01 wrote:If you are refereing to the "dirt-skirt" of the bottom-right orc rock tower, I think Eleazar wants that removed anyway. (And I'll do that once 1.9 comes out.)Jetrel wrote:There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock
Why would you wait until after 1.9 comes out? Do you need a compiled version?
Feedback
I think i may have put out some mixed signals on what sort of feedback would be useful. I'll try to clarify.
* All new/altered terrains: the basic color-scheme/texture. In many cases transitions are minimal
* Water to Flat: Full scrutiny, with the understanding that the transition set isn't complete.
* Etherial Abyss and Castle-to-Chasm: Full scrutiny. I have nothing more planned for these.
There are a billion terrain combinations, and i can't see them all. So when in doubt, let me know about glitches/issues. Just don't be miffed if i don't immediately fix it.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Since i called the Abyss done, i had to go and actually finish it-- i.e. give it transitions with the normal chasm.
While i was messing with that WML, i added in shroud (_s), void, (Xv), and off-map (_off^_usr) to the list of things to use the base chasm/abyss transition with.
That's void in the bottom of the image. You used to get a cliff edge between chasm and void.
But i seldom see maps that use these three terrains. They all look the same in the editor-- pure black).
Can anyone tell me what the differences it? I know what shroud is in a MP game, but i don't understand why it needs to be a terrain type in the editor.
While i was messing with that WML, i added in shroud (_s), void, (Xv), and off-map (_off^_usr) to the list of things to use the base chasm/abyss transition with.
That's void in the bottom of the image. You used to get a cliff edge between chasm and void.
But i seldom see maps that use these three terrains. They all look the same in the editor-- pure black).
Can anyone tell me what the differences it? I know what shroud is in a MP game, but i don't understand why it needs to be a terrain type in the editor.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Void (Xv) is used in non-rectangular MP maps such as Isar's Cross, but Shroud and Fog are intended for exclusive use in building terrain masks for use with WML.
TerrainMaskWML
TerrainMaskWML
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
Preview of the mountains to chasm transitions.
It seems snow mountains don't play as nicely with chasms.
It's also unfortunate that the mountains get really small in all dimensions when next to a chasm.
It seems snow mountains don't play as nicely with chasms.
It's also unfortunate that the mountains get really small in all dimensions when next to a chasm.
- Attachments
-
- Picture 8.jpg (168.36 KiB) Viewed 4796 times
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
I was looking at the castle transitions, and wonder if certain transitions won't look bad no matter what footprint they are made to have. For example, would points A and E look good if they fit the standard transition better? I don't believe they would. Points A and D would need a different chasm type (sandstone and ice?) to not look like they were pasted on there. I could give that a shot, using the current chasm as a model. I realize variants of terrain types could cause the amount of required transitions to explode, but I don't think winter/chasm and sand/chasm transitions should cause that. There wouldn't need to be lava variants at least.
Point B and maybe even point C can be adjusted, I will do that.
I noticed the cobbles & dirt of the winter castle types are now the same as the regular versions, that was intentional? The snow now looks more pasted on, especially on the orc castle.
Point B and maybe even point C can be adjusted, I will do that.
I noticed the cobbles & dirt of the winter castle types are now the same as the regular versions, that was intentional? The snow now looks more pasted on, especially on the orc castle.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
I'm not clear on weather points A & E include the whole hex + trans, or a particular part. If we're talking about the whole thing, than it seems pretty obvious that it would look better if it had the right footprint. There would be a visible bank transition between castle and water for E -- eventually animated, and the leftmost tower of A wouldn't be floating on air.doofus-01 wrote:I was looking at the castle transitions, and wonder if certain transitions won't look bad no matter what footprint they are made to have. For example, would points A and E look good if they fit the standard transition better? I don't believe they would.
A chasm lightly with some ice and snow on it, especially at the top would be useful. Don't completely cover it with snow or it won't tile well with normal chasm. I'd want to make this an automatic used when next to a frozen hex (if possible).doofus-01 wrote:Points A and D would need a different chasm type (sandstone and ice?) to not look like they were pasted on there. I could give that a shot, using the current chasm as a model. I realize variants of terrain types could cause the amount of required transitions to explode, but I don't think winter/chasm and sand/chasm transitions should cause that. There wouldn't need to be lava variants at least.
Don't make a sandstone chasm. Depending on some things now up in the air, it's rather likely that i'll lighten all cave terrains (including chasm) as described here. The need for an additional color of chasm can be evaluated then.
Totally intentional. There are a lot of flat terrains to choose from and i may have a few more in the works. If the map-maker wants to match the inside and outside base he can, if he doesn't want to he doesn't' have to.doofus-01 wrote:I noticed the cobbles & dirt of the winter castle types are now the same as the regular versions, that was intentional? The snow now looks more pasted on, especially on the orc castle.
As for the complaint about snow looking "more pasted on", i think your memory is playing tricks. The previous orc dirt was darker and redder. It would have contrasted with the snow more aburptly than the current base.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
So, basically more like the winter human castle, rather than the ice/water transition. I think I can do that this week.Eleazar wrote:A chasm lightly with some ice and snow on it, especially at the top would be useful. Don't completely cover it with snow or it won't tile well with normal chasm. I'd want to make this an automatic used when next to a frozen hex (if possible).
My memory was a bit rosier than reality, but this is what I was referring to:http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=413654#p413654Eleazar wrote:As for the complaint about snow looking "more pasted on", i think your memory is playing tricks. The previous orc dirt was darker and redder. It would have contrasted with the snow more aburptly than the current base.
The hex color was different for the winter and regular castles.
EDIT: It's not complete, but is this along the right lines?
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements
[/quote]doofus-01 wrote:EDIT: It's not complete, but is this along the right lines?
Yeah that's the idea.
It would be best if you can keep your layered file, so if/when the basic chasm is darkened, and/or color-shifted we can do that without effecting the snow.
Also i adjusted the snow-hill trans so they aren't huge and squarish
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity