Confused about translations

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jorrit
Posts: 20
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

Hi all,

I'm trying to make my first Wesnoth campaign but I have some trouble finding out how translations work. I want to make the campaign in English (so that it can be useful for people here when I submit it) but my kids don't speak English and since they are going to be my first playtesters I need to immediatelly translate all text to dutch as well. Any information on how I could do this? I know how to make the campaign ready for translation but I could not find any information on how to do the translation as well.

Greetings and thanks in advance,
torangan
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Re: Confused about translations

Post by torangan »

Once your campaign is put online into WesCamp I'll create .po files for it. Those are used for translations, best done with tools like poEdit made for the job. Those tools usually also allow you to directly translate the .po in a .mo, the binary format which is used in game. Easiest way is to get it online in translateable shape, extracting the strings is a bit more technical.
WesCamp-i18n - Translations for User Campaigns:
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesCamp

Translators for all languages required: contact me. No geek skills required!
jorrit
Posts: 20
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

torangan wrote:Once your campaign is put online into WesCamp I'll create .po files for it. Those are used for translations, best done with tools like poEdit made for the job. Those tools usually also allow you to directly translate the .po in a .mo, the binary format which is used in game. Easiest way is to get it online in translateable shape, extracting the strings is a bit more technical.
My campaign is not at all ready for putting online anywhere. I would rather do the translations myself immediatelly. i.e. I want to write the campaign with two languages at the same time. Otherwise it will not be workable for my kids who will help me with the story. Can't I create those po files myself?

An alternative is that I write the main cfg files in Dutch and that english is a translation which is added later. Is that a possibility or does english always have to be the main language in the cfg files?

Greetings,
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melinath
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Re: Confused about translations

Post by melinath »

There's no reason you couldn't use Dutch for all the displayed text (names, messages, story, etc.)
Only the markup has to be in English. If you want a wider audience to have access, I imagine you could add English later...
Also, no need to be shy! If it's not ready, publish it, be able to use wescamp, and you might even get some feedback from people besides your kids. Up to you, though.
jorrit
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Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

melinath wrote:There's no reason you couldn't use Dutch for all the displayed text (names, messages, story, etc.)
Only the markup has to be in English. If you want a wider audience to have access, I imagine you could add English later...
Also, no need to be shy! If it's not ready, publish it, be able to use wescamp, and you might even get some feedback from people besides your kids. Up to you, though.
It is not a matter of getting feedback from my kids. It is them writing the story with me (or inventing it at least). There is nothing to publish yet. Just a single scenario containing [story] tags :-)

Greetings,
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SkyOne
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Re: Confused about translations

Post by SkyOne »

jorrit wrote:I would rather do the translations myself immediatelly. i.e. I want to write the campaign with two languages at the same time. Otherwise it will not be workable for my kids who will help me with the story. Can't I create those po files myself?
Actually, I have once planed the same thing before (I still want to do it.) because translating the dialogues from English back to own first language will possibly be different nuance or taste of the story from one in the original first language.
However, I have read on the translation forum that GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE does not work if the campaign is not written in English, but I am not really sure it, yet. I will keep my eyes on it myself, anyway.

Publishing one in English, and keeping one in own first language privately is not a problem though.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server
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melinath
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Re: Confused about translations

Post by melinath »

Publishing under GPL with another language shouldn't be a problem. I can't think of anything in the license that discriminates against other languages, nor any reason that the license would. Any chance of a link to this discussion?

EDIT:: I assume you're talking about this. It's not that the campaign has to be in English. If you publish it under GPL, the copy of GPL you use has to be in English (to have legal power).
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SkyOne
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Re: Confused about translations

Post by SkyOne »

melinath wrote:I assume you're "talking about this". It's not that the campaign has to be in English. If you publish it under GPL, the copy of GPL you use has to be in English (to have legal power).
Oh, thanks melinath.:smile: It actually makes me clear. Oh, excuse me, jorrit.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server
jorrit
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Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

BTW, one question that hasn't been answered yet is: 'how do you actually make a translation work?'. Let's say I add a [story] section to a scenario and I want it to work in Dutch and English immediatelly. How can I do it? Is there a manual or wiki explaining the steps to do just that?

i.e. I want to translate it myself and preferably immediatelly when making the English or Dutch version.

Greetings,
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SkyOne
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Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Confused about translations

Post by SkyOne »

jorrit wrote:BTW, one question that hasn't been answered yet is: 'how do you actually make a translation work?'. Let's say I add a [story] section to a scenario and I want it to work in Dutch and English immediatelly. How can I do it? Is there a manual or wiki explaining the steps to do just that?

i.e. I want to translate it myself and preferably immediatelly when making the English or Dutch version.
Sorry about it. If you make different versions, Dutch and English, I think that you do not really need translation. Just write:

Code: Select all

    [story]
        [part]
            story= _ "Your story either languages."
        [/part]
    [/story]
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server
jorrit
Posts: 20
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

SkyOne wrote:
jorrit wrote:BTW, one question that hasn't been answered yet is: 'how do you actually make a translation work?'. Let's say I add a [story] section to a scenario and I want it to work in Dutch and English immediatelly. How can I do it? Is there a manual or wiki explaining the steps to do just that?

i.e. I want to translate it myself and preferably immediatelly when making the English or Dutch version.
Sorry about it. If you make different versions, Dutch and English, I think that you do not really need translation. Just write:

Code: Select all

    [story]
        [part]
            story= _ "Your story either languages."
        [/part]
    [/story]
Um, I don't understand that. Don't I have to make two versions of every config file then? That's a bit hard to edit (for the scenario logic) afterwards isn't it?

I prefer to only have one config file for every scenario and have translations the usual way.

Greetings,
User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Confused about translations

Post by SkyOne »

jorrit wrote:Um, I don't understand that. Don't I have to make two versions of every config file then? That's a bit hard to edit (for the scenario logic) afterwards isn't it?
Sorry, again. That was what I thought about two versions. I misunderstood your question.
jorrit wrote:I prefer to only have one config file for every scenario and have translations the usual way.
That is exactly what translation works. You need to follow torangan's advise, but it will be based on English.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server
jorrit
Posts: 20
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

SkyOne wrote:
jorrit wrote:Um, I don't understand that. Don't I have to make two versions of every config file then? That's a bit hard to edit (for the scenario logic) afterwards isn't it?
Sorry, again. That was what I thought about two versions. I misunderstood your question.
jorrit wrote:I prefer to only have one config file for every scenario and have translations the usual way.
That is exactly what translation works. You need to follow torangan's advise, but it will be based on English.
I can't follow torangan's advice. His advice requires that I put the campaign online but I'm not that far yet (there is only a bunch of story). I want to translate the text immediatelly during development. i.e. every text that I put in the campaign I have to put in the campaign in two languages at the same time. English as the base language (for publishing later) and dutch so that my kids can follow the story and contribute to it.

Basically: I want to do it all myself and not depend on other people after putting it online. Can't someone point me to the tools required to do this or some wiki that explains how to generate po files and whatever?

Greetings,
torangan
Retired Developer
Posts: 1365
Joined: March 27th, 2004, 12:25 am
Location: Germany

Re: Confused about translations

Post by torangan »

There's no such wiki. If you use linux it's more or less easy. You just need to copy a few files into the right places, edit the name, run make and the .pot is generated. From that master copy the .po files are made. Much of this is homegrown stuff, I think most was invented by developers who have left Wesnoth a long long time ago. A few years back I pieced together the required information and created WesCamp for the very reason that it's a bit hard to get a translation running without some technical knowledge.
Gettext is a widely used tool, but Wesnoth requires a custom script to run the extraction part. Afterwards it's just a simple Makefile doing most of the stuff, but as it works fine so far I didn't even look up the exact commands used. I know how it works and I can parse error messages just fine (got a lot of experience over the years in that...). So if you've got Linux/OS X with command line/Cygwin under Windows you may just send me your campaign and I'll send you back an archive set up correctly so you'll only have to run make after changes. OK, you'll also have to copy the compiled da.mo to the right place in Wesnoth.
WesCamp-i18n - Translations for User Campaigns:
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesCamp

Translators for all languages required: contact me. No geek skills required!
jorrit
Posts: 20
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 5:58 am

Re: Confused about translations

Post by jorrit »

torangan wrote:There's no such wiki. If you use linux it's more or less easy. You just need to copy a few files into the right places, edit the name, run make and the .pot is generated. From that master copy the .po files are made. Much of this is homegrown stuff, I think most was invented by developers who have left Wesnoth a long long time ago. A few years back I pieced together the required information and created WesCamp for the very reason that it's a bit hard to get a translation running without some technical knowledge.
Gettext is a widely used tool, but Wesnoth requires a custom script to run the extraction part. Afterwards it's just a simple Makefile doing most of the stuff, but as it works fine so far I didn't even look up the exact commands used. I know how it works and I can parse error messages just fine (got a lot of experience over the years in that...). So if you've got Linux/OS X with command line/Cygwin under Windows you may just send me your campaign and I'll send you back an archive set up correctly so you'll only have to run make after changes. OK, you'll also have to copy the compiled da.mo to the right place in Wesnoth.
Ok, what do you need exactly? Just the zipped contents of my campaign directory so far? Where do I send it?

I have linux and MSYS on windows so I should be able to use it. I know how to use make (I'm a developer myself) so that's no problem.

Greetings and thanks,
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