'When Came out the Shadows' campaign

[domingo]

Hi,

I have just uploaded my campaign "When Came out the Shadows" on the server campaigns.wesnoth.org.

In this topic you will be able to write what you think about WCotS, what I could modify (it is juste a Beta version), if you have some problems, if something doesn't run...

The campaign is in English but I have the same in campaign in French (which is the original text). So if someone wants to translate it in French, I can give him the texts and he will be able to extract them and to "make" the "translation"

I hope some people will like my campaign and that it will be translated...

domingo

[docrock]

in _main.cfg it should read:

Code: Select all

{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/utils}
{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/scenarios}

[+units]
    {@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/units}
[/units]

note the leading '@' else people might have problems starting the campaign

[docrock]

actually a nice campaign with good potential i think, just a few thoughts (mainly about balancing):

- been playing on BfW 1.4.4 on default (easy) difficulty and had from the first scenario on problems with finishing in the given number of turns, maybe you might want to up the turn limit a bit (not much, maybe +2 or +4 turns for each difficulty level)
- enemies do have one hell of starting gold compared to the player and imho too high base income, for example like in the naga scenario where (after killing off the first waves) both enemies send one unit every two turns, given the structure and bottlenecks of the map and considering it's sheer size this makes it almost impossible to win, maybe down the base income of enemies and look for killer-bottlenecks in the maps
- generally the maps seem to be very huge in size and are at points due to terrain a sheer pain to move units
- avoid tomato-surprises like in the first scenario, changing objectives during play is nice, but the player should have a clue about what is coming his way so maybe inform the player a bit earlier about what is going to happen next, as in the first scenario, just don't wait for the player to finish the sect-leader before telling him to explore, tell it to him maybe 10 or 15 turns into the scenario so he knows how to group units and can prepare for the ambush and regroup units accordingly so he does not have to race across the map like mad in the last few turns

anyway, keep up the good work

[domingo]

I enjoy you give me some pieces of advice. I will do the better I can, it's for this reason that the campaign is actually a Beta version... Thank you again for this message, WCotS were downloaded by players (more 800 in 7 days) but nobody told me something about balacing, etc... I only tried the Easy mode so I would be pleased if some peoples would try the Medium and Hard levels!

Thank you for saying the campaign has potential . The story takes place during a period which was not approached yet (I think, I didn't play all the campaigns!) so it's easier to create a story...

domingo

[docrock]

I enjoy you give me some pieces of advice.

consider it kinda beta-playtesting

WCotS were downloaded by players (more 800 in 7 days) but nobody told me something about balacing, etc...

i'd bet that not many of them were even able to start the campaign due to the bug mentioned above, btw. in 10_Chemins_Divergents.cfg the same applies to the map data path

I only tried the Easy mode

yep, me too, but i found it close to unwinnable at times and then again almost too easy, i think that especially the scenarios with naga and those involving a lot of sand terrain need rebalancing

actually, the longer i am playing this campaign the more i like it, though the steady introduction of new units in recruit list keeps you really thinking about what to recruit and what to recall, those elves for example would have really been helpful on the archipelago scenarios, but of coz due to storyline reasons they could not have been there ...

one more word, try to get a decent english speaker to check over the translations, some of them are ... frightening

hth

edit: actually, concerning 10_Chemins_Divergents, that is one example for a very nicely balanced scenario, still, it gives not enough gold at the end, which might be due to a certain lack of villages or a too harsh turn limit imho, personally i would up the villages in that scenario, coz if you balance out the scenarios before the player might have more starting gold anyways

[domingo]

Ok, some things have been modified, I hope it will work! I can't modify all what you told me now, but the corrections in -main.cfg have been made. I also specified that the campaign was not well balanced yet (what I previously forgot)...

Concerning some English expressions, I'm sorry but I can't know when they are frightening. There is not a good traduction from my native language always but it's true the campaign is a few "provocative" But tell me where are these expressions.

Please, could you tell me if the language is globally correct or if it's completely bad...

domingo

[docrock]

I can't modify all what you told me now

nobody asked you to, judging from the volume of your campaign you put a LOT of effort into it and so accordingly changes take their time

but it's true the campaign is a few "provocative"

now that is a wonderful example for what the problem really is
actually, stuff like trimming translations and dialog and all that is what you should do last, first do try to play through your campaign with the mindset of a player completely different from you, like, for example, me. i am a big army builder, upleveller, recruiter and that. you set the campaign so that the player has to recall the best he has and fill it up with new recruits. try that with different mindsets for different player types and you will definitely get it balanced. btw, from the 10_Chemins_Divergents scenario on things are actually very well balanced, i think most of the problems players could have result from the maps, choice of terrain and choice of enemy gold on the archipelagos.

the translation itself ... well ... it is ... ummm ... like from babelfish as i might say, right, well, as well as you i am not a native english speaker but though i am a hun/kraut i know a bit of french and i think my english is not that bad. soooooo ... after you got things balanced i will play through again and if you have not found anybody else in the meantime willing to look through the texts i might even do it. it's not that much of work and though i am pretty busy with my corp atm i might find time for it. if i don't react on the forum after you upload a re-balanced version to the campaign server don't hesitate to pm me.

[archlich]

worked on my computer when i tried it again, though my first attempts failed...

Isn't technology great?!

[WYRMY]

I don't mind doing some translations..... but only some. I don't know how much spare time I have.

[WYRMY]

Ok, here are the first 3 scenarios. It took longer than expected, so I'm not sure if i'll do anymore. Sorry.
The original line will be above, and the corrected line underneath, with anything changed coloured in.

SCENARIO 1
"I think we need help. Our escort is low, we do not have enough men."
"I think we need help. Our escort is low, and we do not have enough men."

"We come from a village to fight with you, we are royal army's veterans. This sect terrorized the peasants and the people in general."
"We have come from a village to fight with you, and we are the royal army's veterans. This sect has terrorized the peasants and the people in general."

"They stole our crops... They rquisitioned our homes... They forced us to practice their damned religion... But we're mostly just peasants! What could we do against them?"
"They stole our crops... They requisitioned our homes... They forced us to practice their damned religion... But we're mostly just peasants! What could we do against them?"
Here, I'm not sure if requisitioned is the right word. Maybe raided or looted would be better.

The death of Cutty Fred didn't work. Your code needed this:

Code: Select all

	{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/utils/deaths.cfg}
	{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/utils/utils.cfg}

Note the @ sign.

"Well... This is so sad... we must hury his body..."
"Well... This is so sad... we must bury his body..."
Why is it sad?

"I have it. Ouap! It burns! He stronlgy warmed when I took it, but I can carry it."
"I have it. Ouch! It burns! It grew hot when I took it, but I can carry it."

"Yaaa ! An attempt to seize the Treasury! Hit me these heretics, saint Guardians!"
"Yaaa ! An attempt to seize the Treasury! Destroy these heretics, saint Guardians!"

"Eh eh ! The journey decidedly begins under the best auspices!"
"Uh oh ! The journey begins under the best auspices!"

"Argh! I meet up with our Master, that you've probably brutally murdered! I want to be avenged!"
"Argh! I meet up with our Master, who you've probably brutally murdered! I want to be avenged!"

"These men were truly enigmatic, why were they so fanatic?"
"These men were truly enigmatic, but why were they so fanatic?"
It rhymes. Ha ha!

"I come with you. I want again to kill enemies! To hell my rheumatism!"
"I will come with you. I want again to kill enemies again! To hell my rheumatism!"

"I once again wish to use my spears! Where will we go through?!"
"I once again wish to use my spears! Where will we go though?!"

What is an "intendant"?

[WYRMY]

SCENARIO 2

"Mmh, good work, guys! However, it is quite annoying to know this sect in Wesnoth, especially so near of Weldyn and Dan Tonk."
"Mmh, good work, men! However, it is quite annoying to know this sect in Wesnoth, especially so near of Weldyn and Dan Tonk."
I wouldn't use the word "guys", it is very unkinglike

"Yes, you're right. Weldyn doesn't run any risk. Get ready for departure, guys. Cutty Fredd, do not forget that you'll each command the ship on which you are embarked. In case of problems, it will be you, Konrad, who will take the command of the expedition."
Again, replace guys with men/soldiers/etc.

"(steps noises)"
"(stepping noises)"
The thief should be team coloured

Code: Select all

			image=units/human-outlaws/thief.png~RC(magenta>blue)

One of the scarecrow images didn't show up.
Use items/scarecrow instead of items/scarecrox

What is an enurgumen? What does it mean?

"I've had!"
"Ach ! I'd have much reduced him to mush but I must check my gesture!"
What is the guy trying to express here?

I would move Ravaille Hac further away (25,15 for example), as I kileld him in 1 turn

There are also lots of unnamed spearman and swordsman. I would get rid of their description and replace with generate_description=yes

[WYRMY]

SCENARIO 3

The first thing I noticed that in the scenario before, it wasn't said that the King was going too. Maybe you could have a bit of story, like this....
Konrad, Fredd and Haldric sailed away on their ships. But a freak storm separated Konrad and Cutty from the King, and Konrad was washed up on an unknown island of mist....
Not very good, but it will provide some description/

"They're undeads, yes! This is aware just with fog that surrounds us!"
"They're undead, yes! This is aware just with fog that surrounds us!"
By "This is aware just with fog that surrounds us!", do you mean:
1. the fog is aware of them
2. The undead created the fog
3. Merlin is aware of the undead because of the fog
4. something else
Anywhere where "undeads" is written, replace with undead

"We're ahead for a battle! Forward!"
"Forward, to battle!"

Add a recruit pattern to the undead sides, because only skele archers and shadows were being recruited.

Good work on your campaign!

WYRMY.

[domingo]

Great thanks for your answers! I will work hard as soon as I will be able. I will read again your recommandations, correct some things and "inform" you about the sentences you don't understand (I think they're not very used in the Shakespeare's language ) ... It's frustrating to made so much mistakes but to be beginner or not to be beginner, that's the question...

Concerning the translation, I inform you that the first text was in French (text that I update like the English one, when there are updates)... I tried to translate that but...

archlich: you (and plenty of other persons surely) couldn't play my campaign until the '0.2.1 Beta+' and I didn't know why, but WYRMY told me the reason... It was about '@' in _main.cfg Sorry!

domingo

[archlich]

Through the few scenarios i've gotten through, I notice you put rather tight turn limits on there.

I usually get recommendations that the turn limit should be used to control the size of the gold limit, generally not to put extreme pressure to work quickly, which any well seasoned player knows to do.

I had 2 turns left on scenario 3, when I was playing on easy. (Admittedly, I am not that great of a player.)


Summing it all up, my advice is this:

"Easy" should mean easy (and vice versa) , and loosen the turn limits.

[domingo]

"The death of Cutty Fred didn't work. Your code needed this:

Code: Select all

	{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/utils/deaths.cfg}
	{@campaigns/When_Came_out_the_Shadows/utils/utils.cfg}

Note the @ sign."

I suppose all the campaigns/When_.../utils/...cfg links in the scenarios need to have the @ sign... It's what I have just done in the (temporary) 0.2.2. This was an emergency... I hope I don't make another mistake...

domingo