Son of the Black Eye portraits: COMPLETE
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
See, I think that this is a classic distinction between the left and right-brain thinker.
Both approaches are valid. One says 'use instinct and practice to get it right', the other says 'use science and practice to get it right'. The difference between them is in the way you approach the subject.
Both of them include practice. Practice makes perfect. So practice. A lot. When you get good enough, you can start doing stuff like this for practice =D
It's my opinion that no artist should EVER finish practicing. The moment you consider yourself to have reached the pinnacle of your skill is the only moment when you will ever stop being able to improve.
And don't worry about the threadjack, it's a fun debate to fill the time between parts of the project, particularly when I'm not motivated enough to do some practice on other pieces =D And if it's in any way helpful to anybody (myself included, natch) then it's a good debate to have.
Both approaches are valid. One says 'use instinct and practice to get it right', the other says 'use science and practice to get it right'. The difference between them is in the way you approach the subject.
Both of them include practice. Practice makes perfect. So practice. A lot. When you get good enough, you can start doing stuff like this for practice =D
It's my opinion that no artist should EVER finish practicing. The moment you consider yourself to have reached the pinnacle of your skill is the only moment when you will ever stop being able to improve.
And don't worry about the threadjack, it's a fun debate to fill the time between parts of the project, particularly when I'm not motivated enough to do some practice on other pieces =D And if it's in any way helpful to anybody (myself included, natch) then it's a good debate to have.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
- Thrawn
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: June 2nd, 2005, 11:37 am
- Location: bridge of SSD Chimera
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
I disagree--always practice with science/math/references--being what you feel is right isn't necessarily actually right.
Until you *know* what is right, I'd suggest not trying to make things the way you *feel* they should be.
Until you *know* what is right, I'd suggest not trying to make things the way you *feel* they should be.
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott
this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
So, what portrait next?
[edit]
Also, next time, if you want to respond to a post but generally only a very few people need to hear it (like in this case, asking Jetryl more about it) try pming the person (people) that need to.
[edit]
Also, next time, if you want to respond to a post but generally only a very few people need to hear it (like in this case, asking Jetryl more about it) try pming the person (people) that need to.
Mica says one who cheats, cheats himself.
You are an Elvish Shyde - Beautiful, natural, and helpful, though sometimes under-appreciated.
You are an Elvish Shyde - Beautiful, natural, and helpful, though sometimes under-appreciated.
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
Al'Brock or Howgarth. Zookeeper mentioned earlier that the Dwarf and Elf don't need doing as they are pretty much the only speaking characters of their unit type in the campaign, so they get away with using the generic portraits, and since I'm getting pressed for time on my big move that's coming up, it's better to end up with a functionally complete but slightly smaller than planned set of work than leave some stuff half-done.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
So basically, SotBE is now completed (for portraits, that is)
Mica says one who cheats, cheats himself.
You are an Elvish Shyde - Beautiful, natural, and helpful, though sometimes under-appreciated.
You are an Elvish Shyde - Beautiful, natural, and helpful, though sometimes under-appreciated.
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
After Al'Brock and Howgarth, yes.Mica wrote:So basically, SotBE is now completed (for portraits, that is)
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
Been thinking conceptually (and trying, and failing, to sketch down some ideas - i find it difficult to sketch digitally, and all my pencils and pads are packed for my big move coming soon...) about Howgarth and Al'Brock.
Howgarth: Big, fairly pot-bellied, but powerful. Bearded, something of a wild man. Posed something like this guy. Think Geoff Capes in his younger, hairier days, or Prince Vultan. Wielding a big greatsword or claymore. Possibly leather armour, or leather-with-plates - fairly simple. He's Northern Alliance, which (depending on which version of the history you're working from) means he's from a relatively poor group descended from slaves, and fairly far from civilisation.
Al'Brock: Flar'Tar came out tall and relatively skinny. I'd like Al'Brock to be short and dumpy, just for contrasting purposes =D
Up to Girgistan of course.
Howgarth: Big, fairly pot-bellied, but powerful. Bearded, something of a wild man. Posed something like this guy. Think Geoff Capes in his younger, hairier days, or Prince Vultan. Wielding a big greatsword or claymore. Possibly leather armour, or leather-with-plates - fairly simple. He's Northern Alliance, which (depending on which version of the history you're working from) means he's from a relatively poor group descended from slaves, and fairly far from civilisation.
Al'Brock: Flar'Tar came out tall and relatively skinny. I'd like Al'Brock to be short and dumpy, just for contrasting purposes =D
Up to Girgistan of course.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
See, I don't see a separation between the two methods. You have to do both what I said, and what kitty said. You definitely do need to hone a "second-nature" so that as you're drawing, you can just judge from a gut-feeling if something does/doesn't look right.thespaceinvader wrote:See, I think that this is a classic distinction between the left and right-brain thinker.
Both approaches are valid. One says 'use instinct and practice to get it right', the other says 'use science and practice to get it right'. The difference between them is in the way you approach the subject.
But the problem is that this is very hard to get. You're born with a very skewed, very wrong intuition on stuff like this, and it's very difficult to build up. In fact you can practice for years and years, and not really get much better - the web is filled with comics where people churn out drawings every day, and don't improve. But on the other hand, just like kitty said, you can learn all the "art science" in the world and still not be able to draw, either. So what's the deal, then?
You do both.
You practice your butt off, but all the time, you look for scientific, psychological, etc reasons for WHY your different bits of practice did/didn't work. You never just say "oh I'm having a bad day", or "oh I just got lucky." You demand some sort of "reason" that "makes sense" - you won't get one all the time, but you'll manage to get one most of the time. And this way, not only will you shepherd the growth of your intuition into being strong, and well-tuned to other humans, but you'll also have the best backup it could ever wish for. It is the pairing of intuition with reason, the pairing of both right AND left brain thinking that starts kicking real ass.
The classic example is when you're busily working on drawing a figure, and no matter what you do, there's something wrong about it, and it's kinda hard to put your finger on it. Maybe it's in the head, maybe it's lower on the body. Intuition alone tells you it's wrong - but the danger is not being able to pin down exactly what's making it feel wrong, and just "running in circles" for an entire evening (or several), trying to fix it by randomly altering stuff, according to what 'feels' like it might be the cause. I've been in that situation and I hate it. The way out is to follow up that intuition with knowledge of art theory - to realize, in the above example, that "oh, hey, my head doesn't jive with the body because the bust is being drawn from an 'eye level' perspective, whilst the horizon line for the rest of the body is at the hips".
I had this exact problem, several times. The intuition told me it was a problem in the first place. The science told me what the problem actually was, and how I might fix it. Then the science and intuition confirmed it was fixed. And then, the intuition -grew-, because of the science; in the future, I had a knee-jerk "Ah, this might be a perspective problem" reaction every time I encountered a drawing that had the same kind of wrong "feeling" that I'd seen in the above.
It's like captain planet. You know...
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
- Sgt. Groovy
- Art Contributor
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: May 22nd, 2006, 9:15 pm
- Location: Helsinki
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
I'd like to add that thinking about why you "got lucky" is every bit as important as thinking about the failures. Failure maybe gives us more incentive, because it makes us feel bad and we want to do something to feel good again, and we don't want to repeat our failures. But when you succeed, you do want to repeat it, and understanding why you succeeded is necessary for that.You practice your butt off, but all the time, you look for scientific, psychological, etc reasons for WHY your different bits of practice did/didn't work. You never just say "oh I'm having a bad day", or "oh I just got lucky."
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.
- Girgistian
- Art Contributor
- Posts: 668
- Joined: April 5th, 2008, 8:23 pm
- Location: The lands of perkele
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
Back to the subject then! here comes Al, with a fat ass and a grumpy expression.
And before the complaints start coming, the axe should be a plausible weapon since it's still a 'blade' weapon and he's still got the greatsword with him.
And before the complaints start coming, the axe should be a plausible weapon since it's still a 'blade' weapon and he's still got the greatsword with him.
For the dark gods!
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
Well, have to say I like that a lot, the face and his general appearance is really nice.
...except for the axe. I bet you saw that coming. I don't have a problem with him having an axe, it's just that it's now almost the main focus of the whole picture. He's holding it there as if saying "hey, I'm an axeman!", whereas the sprites very prominently feature the big sword(s). It's like...well, a bit like any other sword-wielding unit holding an axe in their portrait. No problem if there's an axe hanging on their belt or something, but in this case I'd say it'll just be a bit confusing...unless we create a whole custom unit for the guy, anyway (which might or might not be a good idea, I can't really say right away).
...except for the axe. I bet you saw that coming. I don't have a problem with him having an axe, it's just that it's now almost the main focus of the whole picture. He's holding it there as if saying "hey, I'm an axeman!", whereas the sprites very prominently feature the big sword(s). It's like...well, a bit like any other sword-wielding unit holding an axe in their portrait. No problem if there's an axe hanging on their belt or something, but in this case I'd say it'll just be a bit confusing...unless we create a whole custom unit for the guy, anyway (which might or might not be a good idea, I can't really say right away).
- Girgistian
- Art Contributor
- Posts: 668
- Joined: April 5th, 2008, 8:23 pm
- Location: The lands of perkele
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
And I might or might not bother to draw an axe-wielding helmless orc for present and future purposes. Inspiration varies. I think I can figure something instead of the axe.
And yeah, true, I does stand out. made me laugh now that I checked it afterwards.
And yeah, true, I does stand out. made me laugh now that I checked it afterwards.
For the dark gods!
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits
Looks almost exactly like i pictured.
If the axe is not preferred, I can turn it into a standard, or simply a dagger or somesuch. Or maybe just a closed fist.
He looks like the 'GET OFF MOI LAAAAND' type =D
EDIT: lines/flats is all I'll get done tonight. Replaced the axe at zookeeper's request. I like the contrast here with Flar'Tar.
If the axe is not preferred, I can turn it into a standard, or simply a dagger or somesuch. Or maybe just a closed fist.
He looks like the 'GET OFF MOI LAAAAND' type =D
EDIT: lines/flats is all I'll get done tonight. Replaced the axe at zookeeper's request. I like the contrast here with Flar'Tar.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits - in progress: Al'Brock
Great portrait but there's just one thing, the fluffy white cape edge make him look a bit like Santa Claus, and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want that coming down my chimney
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Son of the Black Eye portraits - in progress: Al'Brock
They do a bit =)
I might tone them down to grey actually - they're a bit bright for the overall tone of the picture as it is.
I might tone them down to grey actually - they're a bit bright for the overall tone of the picture as it is.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.