A New Order units and pictures

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 10th, 2005, 2:42 pm

Still practising. Sigh. From all pictures I made until now I like only "Lady Lorin' and Chieftain (And Ardonik said he find no difference between them).

But he is another exercise. I hope I managed to draw elgs properly. I think that I made a bit too large head.. Also his helmet looks like a chap, and the eye-holes in helmet looks... uhm.. strange.

And the version edited to smaller size:

I would be happy with some criticism which, hopefully, could allow my sprites to improve.

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » June 10th, 2005, 2:46 pm

im not artist, but i think if you want good legs your guy should have bent knees

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 10th, 2005, 4:05 pm

Ok, i tried to correct the legs, increase contrast...

First picture has legs borrowed from standard elf.

Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns · Post by **Rhuvaen** » June 10th, 2005, 4:12 pm

Not being an artist, I think the legs are looking good.

What you're problem is, is that you're sticking to your outlines too much. An outline is good to get the proportions and shape right, but if you look at this game's unit you won't see any outlines. Also your shading is practically non-existent. The more you rely on outlines, the harder it will get to create a realistic perspective that looks natural. Smaller details especially will look more realistic when they're done in differently shaded pixels. Experiment with the way the pixels colours affect the surrounding pixels - it's almost some kind of magic. Line drawing is not advisable for small details on the helm and such (that's why your head grows too big).

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 10th, 2005, 4:19 pm

Rhuvaen wrote:Not being an artist, I think the legs are looking good.

Thank you for your comments.

I try to shade them as much as I can, it seems that the contrast between shadows and lighted area is too small. If you would look at pictres in gimp, you would see that almost no two neighbouring pixels are the same. Maybe I am doing too smooth transitions?

...but if you look at this game's unit you won't see any outlines. Also your shading is practically non-existent.

Hm, actually when I don't use outlines, it just blurs into background. Most of units in wesnoth/images however has outlines, it's just it's use is... magic. Just look at noble youth - the hair are outlined. In just 12x12 pixels, the author managed to do outline, shadow under the hair, put eyes and natural-looking hair.

I added the outline later, I start the drawing usually without the outlines.

see the difference:

This is orginal, without the outline:

And after adding outline:

Usually I draw evreything in one color and then I shade it, then I started to adding outlines because the result, while looking nice in gimp, looked terrible in wesnoth.

Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns · Post by **Rhuvaen** » June 10th, 2005, 4:30 pm

Hm... you're right about the outlines. But near the highlights, or at the edge of less-solid materials (such as the red stuff on top of the helm), you can probably lighten them a bit.

Yes, I think you need to be much, much bolder with the shading

. Try really extreme highlighting. Your darker shades are already okay. Try to put dark and light pixels right next to each other, and see the effect. It's much better than "drawing" a detail like the visor for instance. Light would reflect of the edge of the visor, yet your upper visor edge is darker than the rest. Also the visor bends around the front of the head, so you should use a different shade on the right than on the left (or front) of the visor. Imagine the light coming from above and a little to the right (which is how Wesnoth units look like).

Overall, however, I cannot believe you think that these last units don't look good already

Post by **Jetrel** » June 11th, 2005, 3:23 am

szopen wrote:I try to shade them as much as I can, it seems that the contrast between shadows and lighted area is too small. If you would look at pictres in gimp, you would see that almost no two neighbouring pixels are the same. Maybe I am doing too smooth transitions?

Yes - use a full dynamic range, from black to white. (or, from something very dark to something very light. Surprisingly enough, the shades you actually see in the real world can be quite wild. They can go from near-black to white just based on illumination, and objects which have one color can have their color changed entirely by the light hitting it.

Go for it - make the darks dark, make the lights light.

szopen wrote:Hm, actually when I don't use outlines, it just blurs into background. Most of units in wesnoth/images however has outlines, it's just it's use is... magic. Just look at noble youth - the hair are outlined. In just 12x12 pixels, the author managed to do outline, shadow under the hair, put eyes and natural-looking hair.

=) why thank you.

Rhuvaen's comments are fairly near on the mark, here.

What you really need to establish is CONTRAST with the background. That will generate a visual edge for you. Making something jet black can give contrast, but it is a rather primitive method of doing so, and eats up a good deal of usable space for your sprite work.

If you want a hard edge, you use a color that probably won't be used on the background. More advanced techniques can get around the problem of the color matching, but this will work for now.

Certain colors other than black, like pure white, can also be used, and are often more appropriate for things like the edge of a sword.

I need to write those damn tutorials I was planning sometime this summer. I have the time, now.

Good luck, though.

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 11th, 2005, 7:12 am

Thanks for the critique and help. I will use this remarks today; the pcitures I'll post now I made before seeing Rhueven and Jetryl's new remarks.

It's animation for Akladian Clanmember. The spear needs correction, since it looks broken, but I hope the rest should be usable.

As for tutorials, they would be much helpful. Eg So you won't have to guess proper values in WML for animation frames and proper spacing in sprite

I made calculations and it seems I will need about 80 pictures besides those I make so far. Heh, I guess for next units I won't do animations

defend:

attack (note the broken spear

)

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 11th, 2005, 9:42 am

And here is what i intend to do:
* done with animation
@ almost done, no animations
@- almost done, but some large modifications needed
# continuation of the line below

Akladian Lady (*) -> Akladian Princess -> Akladian Battle Princess -> Akladian Queen

Akladian Chieftain(@)-> Akladian Lord -> Akladian Warlord -> Akladian ?
+ maybe some custom hero ?

Young Hagarthen -> matured Hagarthen -> Prince Hagarthen -> King Hagarthen

Mirohidai -> Mirohidai Veteran

Akladian Clanmember (*)-> Akladian Warrior ----> #

#-> Akladian LightInfantry (@-)-> Akladian Fastfoot, Akladian Pikeneer

#-> Akladian Heavy infantry (@)-> Akladian Shieldguard -> Akladian Elite

#-> Monster hunter (?) -> (?) -> Hexer (this line may be abandoned)

Akladian faction is NOT intended for multiplayer or other campaigns. It is solely melee faction ("bows are from cowards" kind of attitude). It has NO mages. I don't know whether I will include something like level 0 healer without possibility of advancement. They are intended to be weaker (in sense of less HP) than basic humans. The another intended features: dislike of forests, evasive in most terrains, the fastest units have 4-5 attacks, lines ending with level 4 units.

The basic level 0 Akladian Clanmember is 5-3, so it is probably the best level 0 unit, which is intended.

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 13th, 2005, 10:17 am

Two images made from scratch, with exception of shield which is took from merman (i couldn't somehow draw proper shield) plus chieftain, modified to made it more distibguishable from base clanmember

Warrior, Heavy Infantry, Chieftain (the name may be changed into leader or something)

Heavy infantry image is not finished (no weapons

). Here I experimented with your advices, using more contrast and it went IMHO suprisingly well for a first try

I have no idea how should I do akladian lord and warlord. Sheesh. Any tries I made were just.. terrible. I kept on try to correct them (remembering Jetryl's advice that you can learn the most from correcting your own mistakes) but then I just decided to abandon that line for now and do Akladian Elite (the level 4, the heaviest faction's unit).

Hm.. any comments about quality of the work? Do you think it's good enough to be included in a campaign?

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 13th, 2005, 11:41 am

Akladian Heavy infantry finished:

Akladian Elite:

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 13th, 2005, 12:44 pm

Hmm.. I made few other version of akl-elite.png.. I somehow cannot get the proper legs (

) and pose..

Which one do you like bst, or maybe all three versions are crap?

szopen · Post by **szopen** » June 13th, 2005, 2:52 pm

And Akladian Pikeman:

scott · Post by **scott** » June 13th, 2005, 2:55 pm

The first one is the best. The second one looks like a robot and the last one is too big. However, the first one isn't really a "ready" pose, but it's definitely the best one.

Disto · Post by **Disto** » June 13th, 2005, 7:19 pm

You nicked the shield with the heavy infantry. :P