Ancient Lich Development

[Stern]

After reading the Ancient Lich's new character description, I got a cool idea. Based on the description, I don't think it would be very likely that Ancient Liches would be bipedal, (walking on two legs). I think that amassing an array of mishapen bones to stand on would make the Ancient Lich want to walk on multiple limbs to stay balanced. By keeping lots of spare bones around, the Ancient Lich has plenty of spares in case one breaks.

[Mirion147]

Now I haven't been here in a while, and did try to read as much of this thread as possible, but I'm human, so if what I'm saying goes directly against something afore stated, then by all means, disregard it...

Now this is just my opinion, but I don't think an Ancient Lich would need the use of legs at all, a being that has grown to contain incredibly powerful amounts of energy, would probably no longer look human (if he even was human to begin with), but rather simply be a collection of his bones somewhat orbiting his...soul..

Granted, I have no means of showing what I mean, but I just thought I'd throw in my two cents, sorry, it's not my fault American currency has lost value.....

[wayfarer]

What is their motivation?
Wealth, Life, power?

Wealth? No use for it. Life? They already Life forever. Power? More power than over life itself?
There is something I would lead them strive after revenge. They might be driven by selfhate and there for results hate for everything else.
They might have everything but have lost all things from the past. Some might be worldly-wise about but all of them might share the feeling of a lose.

Getting the motivation is getting a picture about the person. A lich would not exactly care about their appeareance some relics of pride a crown or jewelry which has lost the meaning for him.
Some relics who are worthless but somehow are the last anchor of his past live.
I wouldn't go for body changes and or enhancements, those stuff is trivial for something with such powers. I would go for a mix of flesh and bones, since it is just a mortal shell.
Accessoires for the job, bones, elixiers, etc ...
Rest could be mixed by the cultural backround.

[Darker_Dreams]

What is their motivation?

I think this is an important questions as it will inform a lich's choices in form;
Revenge? add things making it better in combat.
Power? Add arms/mouths/new ways of gathering/focusing/channeling energy.
What about a lich who has something (living) to protect? more inhuman forms might separate it further, whatever benefits they add...

Also, I disagree that power is no longer a drive; power is a scale, and so long as their are others near them on that scale there is always a drive for some to gather more power. For some lichs the drive for more power may be all they have left- having lost or given up everything they once cared for in its pursuit.

[wayfarer]

Well I would say it depends on the grade of sanity. I'm cheating death (not discussing the costs) is quite impressive.
I find the dilema of succeding and actual failing at the same time quite interesting. I think such further body modifications just distract from the inner conflicts and motives.

Of course you can have the crazy completly insane Frankenstein Lich though I don't mind them much they are just cazy.
Frankensteins monster wasn't interesting because of it is appeareance but because of the motives of his "father".

[thespaceinvader]

That would depend entirely on the lich. Just because you can do this sort of thing, doesn't necessarily mean you would. Someone megalomaniacal and crazy like Malifor, Jevyan, Mal Ravanal, a dyed-in-the-wool bad guy, would probably do this sort of thing to the extreme. Someone like Mal Keshar, Mal M'Brin, these sorts of tragic characters, would probably retain more of their humanity (or elfanity...).

[wayfarer]

That would depend entirely on the lich. Just because you can do this sort of thing, doesn't necessarily mean you would. Someone megalomaniacal and crazy like Malifor, Jevyan, Mal Ravanal, a dyed-in-the-wool bad guy, would probably do this sort of thing to the extreme. Someone like Mal Keshar, Mal M'Brin, these sorts of tragic characters, would probably retain more of their humanity (or elfanity...).

Yes yes exactly while a complete crazy Lich can be fun and has room for some quite dark humour(something I can really appreaciate ) and there are the others who are not completly over the top but are carried by more twisted and complicated thoughts.

Well just thinking out loud.

[Geirroed]

*steps out the dark shadow of lurking*

This guy made himself comfortable by adding a throne made of another ribcage to his body. He also added stuff that helps with walking.

In my imagination an creature like the ancient lich has either survived that long by being an uncontested ruler (like the Wesfolk liches or ruler over an undead kingdom - which reminds of the terracotta army - what about golem/magic "cyborg" parts to replace broken tiles?) or by attracting very little attention (some kind of bookworm or some kind of solitary predator with small body count). Furthering the idea of using supplemental for the body some liches may actually be their horde of undead minions. Concentrating his power/attention on one minion at a time, the lich would then be represented by some kind of possessed/empowered skeleton shifting to the next vessel after one is destroyed (that would require a specific scenario, though).

[artisticdude]

So much awesomeness going on in this thread. I'm seriously tempted to create some sprites, but like Zero, I'm pressed for time these days.

I was thinking on this topic today, and I came up with the idea of the ancient lich having an odd number of legs/tentacles/limbs of locomotion. Since nothing in RL naturally has an odd number of legs that I can find, it might give the ancient lich more of a creepy and unnatural feel. Avoiding symmetry might also enhance the creepy feeling, like having a human arm and hand on one side and a tentacle on the other, or having the leg on one side larger than the leg on the other side.

Also, I was wondering if the ancient lich could just remove bones at will, or would they be stuck on him until they either broke or fell off or rotted away? If he were unable to remove the added bones, it might be interesting to see some broken and twisted remnants of earlier bone frameworks sticking out from him at odd angles, rather than having a 'smooth' look.

I tried to draw a concept sketch of the ancient lich, but... you know the equasion:

artisticdude + mouse + portraits = epic fail

Although TBH I don't do much better with my wacom tablet.

I'll try and do another one when I get access to my tablet later tomorrow.

[johndh]

I did a little experimentation with different symbols, etchings, patterns, etc., that look vaguely mystical and seem like a lich might put on his skull, so maybe I'll have something serious worth posting in the near future. As it turns out, my closet has gotten hot enough to melt all of the crayons and pastels in my old art set, so I might not get to show it off with pretty colors like I wanted to. Anyway, until then, I present to you...

Just for lulz.:

The most unholy of all undead abominations.

Mal Ke$ha(r)

I hope you all know your pop culture.

[Sleepwalker]

Hi, all the submissions in the thread are all very imaginative here. I imagine most could be used for campaign specific characters, but don't you think as a generic ancient lich these are a little over the top? I dunno but that is how I feel. Valkier's latest entry would IMO be the most suited so far...


Anyway I couldn't resist so I tried my hand whipping up something a little more conservative for perhaps a default AL.

*The legs are an amalgam of troll and drake. These 4 legs are attached to a down-pointing drake torso, using its arm and wing sockets as attachment points (Not really seen in this pic). Between the legs it keeps its equipment in a sheet of cloth.

*The upper part of his body has an elongated spine supporting a human torso and a slightly larger torso on top (Orcish?).

[thespaceinvader]

Nice. It would be an interesting sprite to design and animate, too.

[zookeeper]

Personally I feel that a lot of these ideas go way too far in the "bone monster in a cheap horror movie" category. The way to make something scary is to make them mostly human but with a few non-human aspects. If one just mixes together whatever cool bones one can think of, then it's very hard to make it not just another "bone monster from a cheap horror movie".

Want a lich to have four arms? Great, but it's better to tuck the extra pair somewhere where they're just barely visible from under the robes than to make it wave all four around in plain sight: it's creepier that way. Want snake heads? Sure, good idea, but one is better than three, and so on...

To convey the idea that ancient liches are really creepy and can and tend to modify their "body" doesn't require one to have four skeletal snakes for legs, a drake skull for a helmet and having one arm replaced with a thunderstick-wielding dwarf skeleton. I'd suggest picking one major freaky feature, and then keeping everything else reasonably subtle. If you want skeletal snakes for legs, then sure, go ahead, but don't also make it have gryphon wings and four arms flailing around casting spells.

[thespaceinvader]

That's a reasonable point, I think.

[Sleepwalker]

Yeah you have a point there. I realize now that my post was a little hypocritical... Oh well.