Troj - The Tale of Jacky

[alex23]

Bro, I am testing the new version, but I stuck at scenerio6. These are what I suggest to do:

1.Buff Patruk and Jacky's base mobility to 6, and fastfoot Jacky's mobility to 7.

I also thought of that

2.Buff Diana's hp after she leveled, because 40 hp ain't be enough. On lv3 I guess 48-52 would be fine.
3.Buff Patruk, Jacky, and Diana's swamp and coastal reaf terrian mobility from 3 movement point costs to 2 movement point costs.
4.Buff Drogan's hp. 37 is simply not enough, let alone his negative resistances make him harder to survive. I guess 42 would suffice. Besides, are you sure it is rational that Drogan can get a cures/heals by AMLA? That AMLA list is really confusing because there is no exp differences resulted by different upgrades, let alone there is no classical +hp choices, which is rather important for Drogan. IMO he could just level up to be a stronger unit regularly, and continue to upgrade till he gets all necessary abilities like Patruk do. Drogan is a human, hope you did not forget this point. But his resistances is really strangely low. Comparing to other heroes he is really lame. I did not figure it out yet.

Beeing just a subhero, I didn't want to make Drogan too powerful by letting him lvl up once regularly. He is a weaker sub hero (abit like the dog) as he won't play an important role.. But I thought to give him later on (as soon as I know how) a few special abilities ( for example a healing potion that will heal him on his first death, or an explosive potion that will damage all nearbie enemies etc) however I still need to figure out how to programm that.

5.Buff Diana's initial magical resistances. At least we shall give her more cold resistances, since she is good at it.
6.One of the heroes gotta get a leadership; I recommend Patruk or Jacky, but only either of them, not both.
7.When heroes get leveled, please mark the right level instead of the weird ones like lv2--lv4 et cetera. It really does not matter if they are loyal, but that does not look natural.
8. You sure your puppy cannot climb mountain, and receive greater dodge rate on sand and cave than plains?!

5 and 6 yes, 7 no, I'll just dreate a level 1 unit for them that will never be in the story, cause their stats would be too high for lvl 1 etc.. and by attacking them enemie units get more exp now

Scenerio1, I suppose you have made Jacky invincible, right? That is why I cannot actually make him die ever once

Try hard without taking tha 30 hp heal and the chance to survive (is theoretically 20%) However as this battle is based on luck (no tactics) nd is only an introduction scene, I made it rather easy

Scenerio2, your puppy is really good, but you move really slowly so you will miss everything, since your dog finishes all of them for you. I suggest to teleport Jacky to the position with his dog after he bought it from the outlaw.

good idea

Scenerio3, It is rather easy, but it won't be so cool as Patruk moves 6 hexes a turn, thus he can get to Drogan's house within three turns.

Scenerio4, I suggest to change Menelaos's conscription list as Longbowman and Bladesman only, erase Pikeman, since I don't really see the point of recruiting them. Before the drake could fend off nagas and focus on us, my guys should have finished them already, since our heroes move far swifter than his and we are not distracted by nagas. So basically he is only going to fight nagas, Pikeman would be actually useless.

Hmm I thought of changing scen 3 a little bit to make it more interesting

Scenerio5, before you updated the campaign, it is really too easy. We don't even need to do anything positively, just sit aside and watch, pick some exp during the cat fights between the undead and the humans enemies. But now we have to kill all enemy leaders, which do take some time and caution, so it is well balanced after all. If I were still to change some elements of this scenerio, I will move that northwest corner village (3,4) one hex nearer to us, and I will make some roads in the south desert, or the landing process would be trisky. Unless, of course, kill the enemy leader simply by the heroes, since they don't have any mobility problems on sands.
Futhermore, your scenerio objectives does not match with the real objectives. Its description still shows as "kill the skeleton dragon xxx"

Scenerio6 has not of problems. It is not well balanced. To fend off saurians and undead without mages, we would only rely on HIs. But the terrian was so bad that my troppers can hardly move, let alone to fight properly. I think the problem focuses on the hills neary by your keep. These hills really screw everything up, takes a whole day for a HeavyInfantry to move out of the castle to the battlefield. This is some kind of very basic design flaw, if let me say; so I boldly removed all these hills and move on.

未命名.JPG

Besides, fighting saurians is trisky too, since the whole south part of the map was nearly covered by swamps, we have to send mermans to deal with this; but the swamp ends up in a land-based castle, so it will be hard for them to take the leader down. Here I remade a map for you, fixed all those mentioned above, delicately fixed all unrealistic detailed terrian hexes, cancelled flank villages and add more; I did not change the castles, because it seems that you love finely built castles rather than more realistic-ruined ones. To lower down the difficultiy, I suggest to start from cutting down enemy income, in case they simply swarm to us continuously while we can not even get out of that dumb hills. More turns needed as well.

Scenario5.map

Finally, I shall remind you that many unit's voices are rather queer. For instance, when Diana was hurt or died, her voice is the regular male-unit's voice. Your dog shout like humans as well when it is hurt, which is really laughable

Scenario 6 has as I mentioned in the description a nice special, if you look at the road that goes north from your camp, you will see that it is blocked by mountains, but at their foot you see the start of a bridge- so basically it is a secret passage through the mountains and a t the end of it, there is a castel.
I made scen 6 on Hard but by loosing Drogan and the dog. However I am not a great tatician so it should be possible without too much save&reloads
Yes I haven't changed the voices yet as I play without music udsually^^

Thx for the review, I'll change everything as soon as possible

[AxalaraFlame]

Scenario 6 has as I mentioned in the description a nice special, if you look at the road that goes north from your camp, you will see that it is blocked by mountains, but at their foot you see the start of a bridge- so basically it is a secret passage through the mountains and a t the end of it, there is a castel.
I made scen 6 on Hard but by loosing Drogan and the dog. However I am not a great tatician so it should be possible without too much save&reloads
Yes I haven't changed the voices yet as I play without music udsually^^

Thx for the review, I'll change everything as soon as possible

Hang on, wait a sec. I go check it.

Bro, it is wrong! I checked your scenerio files, most plots did not even show up! What the hell is wrong it?
By the start of the scenerio, when your friends came out to follow your adventure, their dialogue did not show up; when sub-boss Erich show up as DeathKnight, he did not say anything as well

Besides, the road do end there by a volcano. BUT, that stuff, well... no teleports, no spoliers, and the road itself remain plain mountains, cannot be considered as "a secret pass", seriously. And, even if you get to the end of the fort, you can hardly hold it, since the enemies focus to take down Jacky and they come en masse, so it just don't mean much great use.

[alex23]

Idk I'll check everything, maybe I changed something after I played it.. However I was able to hold that fort easily by HIs... but thx
Edit:
I found those mistakes, they are corrected now

[perseo]

I cannot run the campaign I use wesnoth 1.10. I dunno the reason.
Have a look at this:

See ya!

[alex23]

I already noticed that - I made a few new scenarios without map^^ the new version should work now

and to Axalara: I changed the scen5 (or 6 the one you had problems with) a little bit and now I managed to win it in 17 turns only loosing Drogan in HARD mode

[AxalaraFlame]

I cannot run the campaign I use wesnoth 1.10. I dunno the reason.
Have a look at this:

Pantallazo-2.png

See ya!

Hmm, it seems that a map is missed here:hmm: But this map is not even applied. Interesting.

[alex23]

I upload a new version of that game every few hours (at least today) so it is possible that you already have the newest version or an older one without that bug @axalara

[AxalaraFlame]

New version downloaded and tested, some changes became IMBA, but scenerio6 become better.

Killing both bosses seem to be impossible, because saurians keep swarming endless units, mainly because they have good income basis and lots of villages.

Two bugs spotted:
1. Drogan's AMLA list have two repeated choices. Check it, you will find two "Faster bites". Besides, his AMLA does not repair hp.
2. Diana's loyal trait was lost.
3. After I survived long enough...

Is this a bug or unfinished scenerio?

Other design flaws spotted:
1. Fastfoot Jacky losts his speed advantage, because regular lv3 Jacky has 7 movement points as well; however, regular lv4 Jacky only has 6 points.
2. Units' voices.
3. Flank villages on maps still exist. They cannot be easily captured, and make the campaign less cool. I consider this as a design flaw because no mainline capaign maps make flank villages...unless you can find something interesting there.
4. Irrational terrian (shall be made according to climatic and geographic common sense) still exists. I.e. elvish villages appear in some places where they are encompassed by no forests but hills, swamps or plains. Hills appear in swamps without vegetation, mix-using winter forests and summer forests in very near hexes, et cetera.
5. Typos, typos

[alex23]

New version downloaded and tested, some changes became IMBA, but scenerio6 become better.

Killing both bosses seem to be impossible, because saurians keep swarming endless units, mainly because they have good income basis and lots of villages.

Two bugs spotted:
1. Drogan's AMLA list have two repeated choices. Check it, you will find two "Faster bites". Besides, his AMLA does not repair hp.
2. Diana's loyal trait was lost.
3. After I survived long enough...

未命名.jpg

Hmm after which scenario did this screen appear? after The harsh truth or after stronger than imagined?
I deleted her loyalyty by mistake...

Other design flaws spotted:
1. Fastfoot Jacky losts his speed advantage, because regular lv3 Jacky has 7 movement points as well; however, regular lv4 Jacky only has 6 points.

It was a amistake, lvl 3 jacky shold have only 6 movements

2. Units' voices.

this has (for me ) the lowest priority atm as I don't play with sound and (at leat in my opinion) it is not that important.. However I'll change that as soon as I finish part two

3. Flank villages on maps still exist. They cannot be easily captured, and make the campaign less cool. I consider this as a design flaw because no mainline capaign maps make flank villages...unless you can find something interesting there.
4. Irrational terrian (shall be made according to climatic and geographic common sense) still exists. I.e. elvish villages appear in some places where they are encompassed by no forests but hills, swamps or plains. Hills appear in swamps without vegetation, mix-using winter forests and summer forests in very near hexes, et cetera.
5. Typos, typos

Yes I haven't checked those terrains, will do today..

[AxalaraFlame]

This bug report happens in the scenerio of that last stand, holding the castle against endless hollows attack.

Besides, Hollow is some kind of unit too IMBA in my opinion. It is like Spectre, flying and draining; however, it is also far more stronger and hell of a devil than Spectres. First of all, great attack, plus marksman making the standing positions unimportant. Second, great speed. That is not even "really fast", but god-damned fast!! Third, many many hp...and it sells at a even lower price than spectres and liches!

The liches in this scenerio is really unnecessary, since before they could even arrive my catsle, I am already killed by endless painful void monsters. I suggest to nerf hollow's speed to 9-10, make them undead and immune to drain (a design flaw?), remove "marksman" to make the holding positions a bit more significant (you might buff their attack to 11-4 as a compensation), and buff the price to 60+ since they are definetly more horrible than liches. This change does not really alter the difficulty, because having 400+ income the enemies will destroy us within two days anyway. Just want to make it coherent and rational.


In addition, the map I sent to you before had already had all terrians fixed.


Check Drogan's AMLA. Besides of that repeated "faster bite"choices, it does not observe default AMLA laws as well, since he ends up his upgrades at lv2. But a lv2 default max-level unit shall have 100 exp instead of 150; for Drogan, who is intelligent, shall have 80 rather than 120. Change this won't matter much of the gaming balance, and add many fun on it.

[alex23]

Your map was good but it had one part missing - and that waas that hidden pass over the mountains.. just try it out witth a loyalist and you will see that he can move oevr those mountains as if it were a normal road.
I applied your ideas and uploaded it.. if it is possible please try the new version and tell me if there is still that bug that you cant enter the next scenario after stronger than imagined (I think of renaming it to the last stand?)

[AxalaraFlame]

Your map was good but it had one part missing - and that waas that hidden pass over the mountains.. just try it out witth a loyalist and you will see that he can move oevr those mountains as if it were a normal road.
I applied your ideas and uploaded it.. if it is possible please try the new version and tell me if there is still that bug that you cant enter the next scenario after stronger than imagined (I think of renaming it to the last stand?)

Oh sorry...I forgot to merge both mountain terrian and road terrian when making them my bad

[AxalaraFlame]

scenerio1:
Bug:
1. repeating turns until turns finished if you are killed, instead of a immediate defeat
Design flaws:
1. The enemy king recruits spearman for nonsense
2. Since the map is a duel map, it shall be made symmetrically, so the castle stand on enemy's part shall be a ruined human castle as well

scenerio2:
Should I teleport forward with my dog after I bought it, the dog will not finish all the rats for me, while I was not even quick enough to get any of them...

scemerio3:
Patruk have 7 movement points now, which is really awesome; but it would make him too strong, so I don't really like that. I believe 6 for him would be OK, and we can move Drogan's research house 3 hexes nearer.
Besides, this scenerio is somehow still too simple, with too little fun. I suggest to make it more complicated, add a bonus plot of finding out the guys who sent the assasins. Patruk can kill them, and get some important information, with an extra bonus.

scenerio4:
This scenerio is still very variable. Sometimes you will have to counter so many drakes that make you feel desperate; sometimes drakes fight with nagas happily, thus your heroes band could assasinate the drakelord with ease.

I suggest to define a clearer aggresion to each side and make the war more controlable. Drakes and nagas foucus on each other more than caring about us; while menelaos and our forces focus on drakes.

scenerio6:
It is still very hard to finish in the turn limits, so I used a design flaw to get through it in all recent versions: my dog has 100% dodge rate on that secret pass; and all enemies focus on striking Jacky. So I send Jacky and dog to that pass, and take negative defense, use the dog's berserk to eat up the enemy and especially two bosses, one after one...even that, I would need at least 18 turns to kill the boss, which is rather tough job.
I suggest to give saurians less base income, since they can get lots of villages; what's more, prolong turn limits on hard to 24 rather than 20 would be good.

[alex23]

scenerio1:
Bug:
1. repeating turns until turns finished if you are killed, instead of a immediate defeat
Design flaws:
1. The enemy king recruits spearman for nonsense
2. Since the map is a duel map, it shall be made symmetrically, so the castle stand on enemy's part shall be a ruined human castle as well

yes i forgot that completely as when i started programming i had no wml skills

scenerio2:
Should I teleport forward with my do g after I bought it, the dog will not finish all the rats for me, while I was not even quick enough to get any of them...

hmm ill try to fix that to the next update

scemerio3:
Patruk have 7 movement points now, which is really awesome; but it would make him too strong, so I don't really like that. I believe 6 for him would be OK, and we can move Drogan's research house 3 hexes nearer.
Besides, this scenerio is somehow still too simple, with too little fun. I suggest to make it more complicated, add a bonus plot of finding out the guys who sent the assasins. Patruk can kill them, and get some important information, with an extra bonus.

he has basically 6 movements but he can have the attribute fast(like every unit). Do you think I should change that?

scenerio4:
This scenerio is still very variable. Sometimes you will have to counter so many drakes that make you feel desperate; sometimes drakes fight with nagas happily, thus your heroes band could assasinate the drakelord with ease.

I suggest to define a clearer aggresion to each side and make the war more controlable. Drakes and nagas foucus on each other more than caring about us; while menelaos and our forces focus on drakes.

Idk yet how to do that, but i think by letting the dragons fight the nagas it might get too easy.. I think i should consider that as good or bad luck (as most of wesnoths gameplay is based on that)

scenerio6:
It is still very hard to finish in the turn limits, so I used a design flaw to get through it in all recent versions: my dog has 100% dodge rate on that secret pass; and all enemies focus on striking Jacky. So I send Jacky and dog to that pass, and take negative defense, use the dog's berserk to eat up the enemy and especially two bosses, one after one...even that, I would need at least 18 turns to kill the boss, which is rather tough job.
I suggest to give saurians less base income, since they can get lots of villages; what's more, prolong turn limits on hard to 24 rather than 20 would be good.

the best way too kill the bosses is using patruck on max level, as this difficult is hard i think i will change the turns to 24(on every difficulty) and maybe make a min terrain improvement.. I also thought of giving Jacky the possibility to be able to recall a few drakes ( if he lets the dragon live two campaigns earlier) to make that scenario easier.. what do you think of that?

[AxalaraFlame]

Sorry, I have not yet finished my last post.
Other issues:
1. All scenerios after scenerio2 shall recall the dog. He is your loyal pet, why can we forget him? (Jacky even mentioned that "At least I can bring my Wauwau with me..." in scenerio6)
2. We should officially give Drogan a chance to upgrade to lv3. I just check Myth, and find that blood manipulators could still level.
3. You did not give back Diana's loyalty...instead, you took Drogan's loyal trait in the last version as well
4. Patruk's berserk blade is really IMBA. It is either too powerful in breaking the enemy lines, or making him fairly weak in taking counter attacks. Besides, he already have a lot of awesome weapons, that berserk takes lot of risks, so I don't suppose it would be necessary.
I suggest to make it cautious berserk(offense only) or simply remove it.
5. Patruk AMLA at 200exp, Drogan AMLA at 100 exp. It is the default setting of maxium level, not personal preferences. AMLA exp=level*50. Besides, they can still be intelligent, cutting down extra 20%.
6. Patruk's maxium level has ice/fire/arcane weapons, but he does not resist any of those damage; Jacky ends up with a big blade and a throwing knife, but he could resist arcane/fire/ice!