Legend of the Invincibles

[Naron]

I think that the Shocking Sword would be badly overpowered. Lightning is already very good at ignoring the bosses' resistance (some have like 60% resist everything, lightning ignores it and deals more than twice as much damage). With 40% extra attacks, it would be a pretty strong weapon by itself. The weapon special is pretty tough too, it would allow you to keep one enemy badly crippled by a unit attacking him every turn. Reduced resistances and damage are pretty nasty, if you combine it with slow on some boss you'd make the boss totally harmless. It would be pretty overpowered, especially on weapon that is already a boss-killer.

Therefore it is called the Shocking Sword.
You missed an aspect, you are physically more fragile when you wear this weapon (-20% physical resistances for wielder).
Maybe you should change the type of damage, but keep the weapon special, because otherwise the weapon's name no longer makes sense. And the decrease of damage and resistances of enemies makes sense because it is hard for you to resist and to fight well while you are shocked.

[dabber]

At the start of Chapter 3, text says that the auto-recalled loyal units also advance slightly faster than normal, but I don't see any evidence they advance faster, either in game play or in the WML.

[Dugi]

@Naron
Giving the player another tool to make bosses do few damage besides mayhem and slow is too much. Maybe slowing the enemy and changing the way slow behaves for 1 turn so that he would not deal 50% less damage, but 30% less damage but have -20% resistances instead (why not increased chance to hit instead? that sounds more logical) would be a way to deal with this overpowered stacking tool.
That vulnerability could outweigh the increased attacks (honestly, I haven't noticed it), but not the weapon special (maybe some additional -40% damage could do).

@dabber
Are you sure? When they are recruited, their maximum experience is set to 80% of the original value (that is further nullified by the 125% experience modifier). Result -> usual maximum experience, not like 25% slower that other units have.

[Naron]

Dugi, I think you're right.
Well, if my proposal can be adapted (especially the weapon special), that would be excellent.
If not, there's no problem.
The idea is that you never have enough types of weapons.

[marktempe]

Thanks for the answers to my questions (and sorry also: in years that I play with it, I have never realized that the resistances are there )

One more thing: the hit and run now gives back only half of the movement points, right? Because the description is not updated then..

[Raijer]

@marktemple: Not sure about that, i don't remember it being implemented. Sure your unit didn't get slowed while attacking ?

[marktempe]

@marktemple: Not sure about that, i don't remember it being implemented. Sure your unit didn't get slowed while attacking ?

very sure... suddenly, with the last update, all my nice gryphon riders only can run away half the way

[Dugi]

@Naron
I'll think about that.

@Raijer
I have halved the movement points gain, but the update's effect on the ability description will not take place as fast as its effect on the ability's effect (this happens with all abilities). If the ability is obtained through an item, the description will change only if the item is unequipped and equipped back, if it's gained through an advancement, it is never updated.

[dabber]

Why halve the movement points of hit-and-run? How about making two abilities; one for half movement hit-and-run, and another for full movement? Gryphons could then have three AMLAs (penetrate, hit-and-walk, hit-and-run).

[Dugi]

Hit and run was just way too powerful when it was restoring full movement. It was even possible to cross an entire map with a Gryphon Rider in two turns if there were some enemies in good positions.

[dabber]

Ah, okay. Besides Gryphon Rider, what else can get hit-and-run? I think there is one item, and nothing else. In that case, make hit-and-run a fixed amount. Penetrate is 1 move, make hit-and-run 4 or 5. I guess my worry is that half movement on something slow is not interesting (2).

[Dugi]

The other item that has it is a weapon. As you guessed, it is more efficient to be used on a unit with good movement. I don't want to give it a fixed amount of moves recovered, because otherwise you might exploit it, give the weapon to a Heavy Infantryman-like unit, give it a few items that slow movement and have it move mostly after attacking (would work in many scenarios where weaker enemies roam the area constantly).

[marktempe]

Ah, okay. Besides Gryphon Rider, what else can get hit-and-run? I think there is one item, and nothing else. In that case, make hit-and-run a fixed amount. Penetrate is 1 move, make hit-and-run 4 or 5. I guess my worry is that half movement on something slow is not interesting (2).

as far as I know, Gryphon Riders and Lunatic Knights have hit and run. Plus, there is the cunctator sword (sword, I think) and any guerrilla weapon.

Unfortunately, I do agree that the original hit and run was *a bit* too powerful... I am struggling much more now
Maybe you can add AMLAs that make the hit and run gradually more powerful? so that you can actually get it back to full restoring, but it may take 5-6 levels

edit: typos

[Dugi]

It was not my idea to half it, it was based on feedback from players. I suppose that they have more experience with this campaign and know better.

[dffou]

It was not my idea to half it, it was based on feedback from players. I suppose that they have more experience with this campaign and know better.

Indeed, Scythemaster is awesome when they use guerrilla weapon, and even abit overpowered if they got berserk or hellhound attack from books.