The old, unbalanced, 0.8.11

Ankka · Post by **Ankka** » April 8th, 2005, 6:22 pm

Disto wrote:On my old forum, i managed to spam 1500 posts of jokes and random funny stuff i found on google.

Well... I got some 7000+ in three years... I'm not proud of it.

Disto · Post by **Disto** » April 9th, 2005, 7:28 am

No but that was in a week Ankka, major spam war.

Ankka · Post by **Ankka** » April 9th, 2005, 7:42 am

Man... in a week. My worst was only propably some 100-200 per week, but 1500... how much time did you spend there?

Disto · Post by **Disto** » April 9th, 2005, 7:48 am

A lot, i could quite happily do 100-200 in a hour.

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » April 10th, 2005, 11:34 pm

WOW. I have never spammed forums before, but I do spend time on this one!

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 11th, 2005, 9:22 am

Someone on another forum spammed around 7000 posts in 13 hours... (this was by the consent of the administration, and they deleted said posts afterwards.)

Disto · Post by **Disto** » April 11th, 2005, 3:57 pm

Mine were actually readable.

Kamamura · Post by **Kamamura** » April 16th, 2005, 1:39 pm

Old, unbalanced 0.8.11 ?

After a few MP games with 0.9.0, seeing the new dwarven berserker and guardsman in action, I think about it as "the good, old, not-broken-yet 0.8.11"

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 16th, 2005, 2:16 pm

Kamamura wrote:Old, unbalanced 0.8.11 ?

After a few MP games with 0.9.0, seeing the new dwarven berserker and guardsman in action, I think about it as "the good, old, not-broken-yet 0.8.11"

Drakes and one other faction (I forget which) and (I thought, but was wrong) all level 2 & 3 units were seriously fixed in 0.9.0. Only the Knalgans have huge problems at this point.

Chris Byler · Post by **Chris Byler** » April 16th, 2005, 8:43 pm

Trying to balance the Knalgans now seems kind of futile if it is still intended to split the dwarves and renegades into seperate factions before 1.0. Both will probably get at least one extra unit line (the main reason they were glommed together was that they weren't completely functional apart) and the presence of those units plus the absence of the other side of the faction will have ripple effects on the usefulness of other units.

I'm not saying that the ulfserker isn't an immediate problem or that there shouldn't be a short-term fix, but to strive for complete balance - well, even if it is achieved, it'll be back to the drawing board once the split happens.

That is, if a split is still in the works - and I do think they feel wrong together. Why would dwarves ally with thugs, thieves, footpads and poachers? And why would they ally with dwarves? How would they get along and in pursuit of what goals? I could maybe see them working together in a particular campaign against a common enemy (it would take some time and peculiar circumstances to bring them together, but could be done), but I think a regular faction should have more coherence than that.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » April 16th, 2005, 9:12 pm

Chris Byler wrote: That is, if a split is still in the works - and I do think they feel wrong together. Why would dwarves ally with thugs, thieves, footpads and poachers?

I kind of like it actually, mainly because it's slightly outside of the fantasy-stock mold that has (in my opinion) overly influenced a lot of the game. Dwarves and criminals! Now there's something that strikes me as interesting. Unexpected and refreshing.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » April 16th, 2005, 9:15 pm

Chris Byler wrote:Trying to balance the Knalgans now seems kind of futile if it is still intended to split the dwarves and renegades into seperate factions before 1.0. Both will probably get at least one extra unit line (the main reason they were glommed together was that they weren't completely functional apart) and the presence of those units plus the absence of the other side of the faction will have ripple effects on the usefulness of other units.

That being said (above), I think you make an exellent point. I can just see it now....."Okay, so how are we going to make these criminals strong enough to compete?"

Dwarves, I think, would ultimately do alright on their own.

Who gets the griffin though I wonder? I'd guess the Dwarves, but-

Hmmm.

That'd be quite the custody battle.

scott · Post by **scott** » April 16th, 2005, 11:32 pm

Doc Paterson wrote: Who gets the griffin though I wonder? I'd guess the Dwarves, but-
Hmmm.
That'd be quite the custody battle.

They could steal the gryphons... then not know how to ride them.

Chris Byler · Post by **Chris Byler** » April 17th, 2005, 2:33 am

Well, I guess that depends on what role the griffon is intended to fill, but if you think of it as a scout, criminals already have the footpad and there was that thread about a horse thief line... dwarves, on the other hand, mostly have poor mobility, especially in terrains other than mountains and hills, and most forms of cavalry don't really seem to fit them.

Obviously if criminals were going to become a faction, they'd need higher level versions, but these already exist in the Liberty campaign (seem pretty reasonable although I haven't done detailed stat comparisons to other level 2 and 3s). I'm kind of ambivalent about the rogue mage line in that campaign, though - it seems too much of an ability grab-bag. Mages with leadership and a good melee attack? Magical melee attacks on the level 3? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a chaotic human mage, but I'm not sure the rogue mage is it.

On the other hand, maybe they don't need a mage at all - you don't have to be a mage to do non-physical damage, as the Goblin Pillager proves. Why not an arsonist line? Arsonist, Incendiary, Pyromaniac... They could start off with torches and then upgrade to shoot flaming arrows as well - having something other than damage type to distinguish them from thugs. (After level 2, they have balanced melee/ranged damage like an outlaw, but are probably slower; maybe sturdier or more raw damage?) If someone can do graphics for these, I'm sure it won't be hard to come up with stats.

While we're on the subject of criminals, why does the poacher (and upgrades) move so slowly in forests and swamps? His description seems to indicate that he's at home there, and he has good defense there, but poor mobility (5 base move = only 2 hexes unless Quick).

If we want an official name for the faction, I'd suggest Renegades, since Outlaw already refers to a specific unit.

Post by **turin** » April 17th, 2005, 1:28 pm

The criminal units probably won't get their own faction.

Also, the two groups won't be split up until the dwarves have something to replace them with. It is my strong opinion that what replaces them should not be more dwarves. Instead, it should be northern men, along the lines of the marauders.