Undeads are NOT overpowered

[Monkey]

Northerners + Knalgans x Undead + Undead

(remove the .txt termination, move file to user data>>saves, load and chose the option to watch replay)

[pg]

Trolls usually destroy Undead unless the Undead player can level some ghosts into a wraith. Adepts can destory trolls too but given it was knalgan + northerner vs 2x undead, the undead had little chance of winning. Ulfs make short work of the adepts. Using the same faction in a 2v2 match is usually a bad idea.

[Ankka]

Using the same faction in a 2v2 match is usually a bad idea.

They could have taken random.

[Monkey]

That's what they did (random), but anyway, knalgans and northerners are the worse faction against undeads. northerners cant poison anything, so all they have is two units with strong melee attack, but few attacks, no ranged attack, and one weak ranged unit. The troll's attack may be impact, but the undead have only -10% of resistence, so it's not that much, and the attack is no big deal, 7-2.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Umm did you just say that Northerners are underpowered? Because there's a lot of people who'd disagree with you on that...

[Monkey]

No, I said notherners are one of the worse factions against undead. As they cannot poison them, the only unit that has a good attack against them is troll, and troll doesn't have a very good defense.

[Elvish_Pillager]

As they cannot poison them, the only unit that has a good attack against them is troll,

What about the Grunt, the Wolf Rider, and soon to be the Archer as well? Undead do not resist Blade extrordinarially.

Now, I'm going to go watch that replay.

[Monkey]

A wolf rider only if upgraded to pillager, and grunt, after the damage reduction because of the undead's defense, will have the same or weaker attack than the troll.
The troll is the best the northerners have.

[Elvish_Pillager]

There is SO MUCH WRONG with that replay, it's nothing even CLOSE to evidence.

Morituri is not a good map for Undead.
Undead have never been particularly powerful at close range, except with the Ghost, which was not used effectively in this replay. The map is too small for Undead's greatest advantage to be effective. Also, the map is too small and the villages too close for scouts to be good for scouting at all.

Yellow plays terribly.
He only attacks with about half his units in any situation. He doesn't go after kills. He doesn't help his ally when his ally is in a fix. He just leaves his units sitting in the forest, the hills, or whatever, and sits there. He persists in recruiting Skeletons to confront Trolls, who they are weak to; Dark Adepts would be powerful, but when he got Dark Adepts, he left them in the open, fully within the range of enemy melee units, and made no attempt to defend them. Given all this in his ally, what chance could Red possibly have? Against two reasonably competent players, as you were, a team cannot function without two reasonably competent players of their own.

You were lucky.
That's right. Your team dealt more damage than expected, and took more damage than expected, but the discrepancy in damage dealt is lower. When you're lucky, there's many things you can do that you can't do when you're not.

Noyhauser insults me.
I get his point on the Undead not being overpowered. The Ghost, and to some extent the Dark Adpet, are all they have left; once the Ghost is fixed, the Undead will descend from its power. Noyhauser seems to think it's weak, which it isn't. Very little can defeat a Ghost on a village. However, in this game, only Yellow recruited Ghosts, and he didn't put them on villages! What I don't like is the way he attacked me personally, calling my posts 'drivel'. When I make a long, thought out post like this one, I'm offended when it's called that! Thing is, he's behind the times. He said I have more than 2500 posts --- I have almost 5000 now. I also would appreciate it if people wouldn't swear (although that was mostly you, Monkey!)

Between your luck, Yellow's bungling, and the map used, this doesn't prove a single thing. It's not even valid evidence, to my mind.

[Big Bad Joe]

Quite sorry to say that, but someone with self confidence like you, could be more resistant to personal insults. I do not know any other player, who will be rude ( maybe dandy or egoistic is the right word, but rude suffice I think) enough to put himself in the proposed best players thread in MP section, without having any proof - like tournament standing, or other people opinions. Personally and honestly I do not know how you are playing at all and the same way I do not know if your ideas are not just a theoretical crap - saw you TWO times on MP server - I saw some of your lucky insane conditions replays too, but that means nothing at all except that you are really a little bit extravagant, and your 5000 posts are the same - most of them is really boring tutoring of newbies. I suppose you have plenty of free time to respond on every idea on forums, ok nothing against it, but on the other hand nothing we must take in consideration on your level.. So do not be offended and show MP players that your soo long soo overthought letters are working in practice.. I would like to watch it really..
There is no honor without battle.. there is no proof without battle..

[Elvish_Pillager]

Quite sorry to say that, but someone with self confidence like you, could be more resistant to personal insults.

Sure I could be; but I am'nt, and you needn't complain. At least I didn't insult him in return.

I do not know any other player, who will be rude ( maybe dandy or egoistic is the right word, but rude suffice I think) enough to put himself in the proposed best players thread in MP section,

Egotistical is right --- I'm selfish and egotistical, I think I'm the best, yes. Rude is another matter. It's not like I said "The rest of you stink at playing"; I try to be honest. The question was 'who's the best'; I answered as I thought was correct. Do you blame me for answering at all? I would blame myself for answering inconsistenly with my belief.

without having any proof - like tournament standing, or other people opinions.

How about the fact that I've reached the penultimate scenario of Heir to the Throne with zero losses and minimal save/loading? I'm sure none of the rest of them has done that --- and I'm equally sure that their skills would benefit from the deed.

and your 5000 posts are the same - most of them is really boring tutoring of newbies.

Well, isn't that nice of me? I find that some of the newbies really get better when I help them!
I'd say that a lot of my posts are "trying to convince people I'm right" rahter than helping newbies.

nothing we must take in consideration on your level..

I can't parse this phrase. Could you rephrase?

So do not be offended and show MP players that your soo long soo overthought letters are working in practice.. I would like to watch it really..
There is no honor without battle.. there is no proof without battle..

Battle is nice, ain't it? Battle is why I'm as skilled as I am; Battle is why I know which of my units will live, and which will die. Battle is what Wesnoth is all about. Battles are inconsistent, and victory or defeat in a single battle is bad evidence to the extreme. You must be a player in the battle to truly understand its implications, and any number of recorded battles will not help others understand you, if you do not explain them. Posting only selected battles gives inaccurate evidence sampling. Posting all battles spams the forum. There is no happy medium.

[Big Bad Joe]

How about the fact that I've reached the penultimate scenario of Heir to the Throne with zero losses and minimal save/loading? I'm sure none of the rest of them has done that --- and I'm equally sure that their skills would benefit from the deed.

Because nobody else see a tremendous fun in playing campaign map over and over, just to do it without loses. I have tried the same chalenge with RoW and I have played about 10 maps this way - it is not fun anymore for me, you do not finish HttT this way anyway, do you?.. I took it as proof of your strong will, but sorry, this is no real proof of your player qualities - campaign playing and MP playing are very different disciplines and I know what I am speaking of.

Egotistical is right --- I'm selfish and egotistical, I think I'm the best, yes. Rude is another matter. It's not like I said "The rest of you stink at playing"; I try to be honest. The question was 'who's the best'; I answered as I thought was correct. Do you blame me for answering at all?

Ok. The right words from vocabulary: Vainglorious and in US spread-eagle.

I can't parse this phrase. Could you rephrase?

Nothing of what you have done, made any ( can not speak for all ofcourse, but when one do not comes to forun, he does not know any EP except Elvish Presley, and that is really top player) of MP players to have you in high regard..

Battles are inconsistent, and victory or defeat in a single battle is bad evidence to the extreme.

Every skilled MP player knows this, but when you lose and EV stats are ok, you were not playing as good as oponent. Nobody will tell something like - EP lost, he is not good at all. Good players look at the game style , at the number of bad moves you made and the luck is just a luck... BUT THERE ARE STILL PLAYERS WHO LOSE ONE GAME OF 7, ARE YOU REALLY THAT GOOD? If you are - show it on the MP server and nobody will make jokes of you anymore, if you are not - stop making these "I am the best" proclamations, or suffer the consequences..

[AT]

This is not the place for a flame war. Elvish Pillager is a well-known (and even respected) member of this community, and, while he does have an ego, he is almost always polite about it.
I suggest everyone here at least attempt to do the same.

How good he actually is should be addressed privatly, or in OT.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Because nobody else see a tremendous fun in playing campaign map over and over, just to do it without loses.

Many of them were done on the first or second try... I spent no more than three tries on any scenarios except Bay of Pearls and Siege of Elensefar.

Nothing of what you have done, made any ( can not speak for all ofcourse, but when one do not comes to forun, he does not know any EP except Elvish Presley, and that is really top player) of MP players to have you in high regard..

I am often (around 1/4 of the time) greeted with "Ooh it's the famous Elvish Pillager" or similar comments when I enter the MP server.

Every skilled MP player knows this, but when you lose and EV stats are ok, you were not playing as good as oponent.

That's just not true. You can be very unlucky without the EV & stats revealing anything at all. It's all in placement and chance to kill --- kills have a huge influence, but chance to kill is not recorded. Only chance to damage is.

or suffer the consequences..

Normally I don't like threats... but this is amusing... what consequences? Do I care if other people don't think I'm the best? That's why I like using crazy strategies rather than likely-to-win ones...

[Elvish_Pillager]

How good he actually is should be addressed privatly, or in OT.

Yes, this thread could use some splitting perhaps.