The Saurian Tribalist MP faction (aka drakes) is overpowered
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So your point is tribalists will beat any faction but undead, and burners will beat undead, so drakes are overpowered. I agree...
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Invisible Philosopher
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Basically all that needs to happen is removing the Tribalist's skirmisher, and let's discuss other drakes being overpowered in another thread if we want to, but if Tribalists' skirmisher is removed, or some other balancing done, then it would be okay to 'hijack' this thread...
Play a Silver Mage in the Wesvoid campaign.
Tribalist rush really really isn't effective. It just won't work if your opponent is expecting it and why wouldn't they be? It's normally your only real chance as drakes of winning against other factions except undead.
Undead themselves can beat burners with mass adepts. You just need enough favourable terrain to make use of adept's higher defence.
Undead themselves can beat burners with mass adepts. You just need enough favourable terrain to make use of adept's higher defence.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Wow, so much contreversy. I'm going to try it out a few times myself next time I get on Wesnoth Multiplayer, and I'll actually tell my opponents before the game that I'm going to do a Tribalist rush.telly wrote:[it] won't work
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Elvish_Pillager
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Ok, the results of my research so far: Tribalists OWN Charge.
I played against a reasonably competent player 3 times. He had no chance on any of them. He attempted several strategies which might appear to be effective. (the second replay is against a self-confessed noob, so it really doesn't count.)
I played against a reasonably competent player 3 times. He had no chance on any of them. He attempted several strategies which might appear to be effective. (the second replay is against a self-confessed noob, so it really doesn't count.)
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Charge_replays-tribalists.zip- (24.25 KiB) Downloaded 136 times
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Bear in mind that 95% of Wesnoth players recruit badly and make bad decisions.telly wrote:No, both were really bad, come on. In all the replays your opponent recruited badly and made bad decisions.
Almost nobody can avoid making mistakes, and it's not a lot of people who know all the rules and strategies.That a player who is not a total noob could lose instantly with no chance of survival to any strategy, means that that strategy is overpowered, I think.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
When you have the first turn on a small map against an average player, almost any sort of rush will win the game. Its too easy when they disperse their units so quickly and you come in concentrating your attacks, taking them down one at a time. Skirmish is good, but against weak opposition an attack with all orc grunts or whatever would work just as well.
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Elvish_Pillager
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It sure wouldn't have worked in that last fight. They had Heavy Infantry, and if I hadn't gone after their leader, they would have had a chance at least...telly wrote:Skirmish is good, but against weak opposition an attack with all orc grunts or whatever would work just as well.
However I'll try some ordinary rushes on Charge to see how well they do.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Jetryl is a skilled player, he can't survive the Tribalists either, even given three chances. I can't survive them when he uses them either, and I also did a generic rush against him and lost.
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- Charge_vs_Jetryl_replays.zip
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It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
None of these replays is very good either. All these games the drakes always go first, so they have a big advantage anyway. The mass mermen thing and the rush you tried with the trolls and assassins were just terrible. Jetryl's games, he recruited the wrong leaders and brought them out too soon and too far.
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Elvish_Pillager
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I beg your pardon? I'm not at all certain that you'll even be able to FIND any 'better' replays! I suggest that you substantiate your claims before saying something isn't good!telly wrote:None of these replays is very good either.
When it was the only strategy that even defeated the initial rush?telly wrote:The mass mermen thing [was] just terrible.
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Elvish_Pillager
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I would like you to produce a 'good' replay. I doubt that you'll find it easy, and you might not even be able to.telly wrote:In this context they aren't any good because they don't demonstrate tribalist's overpoweredness. Rather, in all these replays the drakes win because their opponent either has the wrong units, or brings their leader out too far, or both.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
I wasn't suggesting you're a bad player, or making some sort of negative aesthetic judgement on your replays, so I don't see the need for any sort of 'challenge'.
Anyway, if you really want I can make some replays but only on the condition that you first acknowledge my complaint about yours; that in the games shown so far, the drakes win not because tribalists are overpowered but because they have the first turn and their opponent either recruits the wrong units, disperses them too quickly, brings out their leader too far, doesn't attack the tribalists effectively enough, or a combination of the above.
Anyway, if you really want I can make some replays but only on the condition that you first acknowledge my complaint about yours; that in the games shown so far, the drakes win not because tribalists are overpowered but because they have the first turn and their opponent either recruits the wrong units, disperses them too quickly, brings out their leader too far, doesn't attack the tribalists effectively enough, or a combination of the above.