Displaying attack info in 1.9

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johndh
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by johndh »

artisticdude wrote:No, the unit gets two melée attacks per turn, each dealing 9 damage. The 2 signifies the number of attacks that unit gets per turn, not the bonus it receives from leadership.
I've always thought it was rather dumb counter-intuitive that we use a hyphen to indicate iterations, where it normally means a range or a subtraction. How many of us see 5-4 and read it in our heads as "five to four"? Of course we know what it really means, but still it's wrong non-standard.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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PeterPorty
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by PeterPorty »

5X4 looks weird.
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Pandarsenic
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Pandarsenic »

artisticdude wrote:No, the unit gets two melée attacks per turn, each dealing 9 damage. The 2 signifies the number of attacks that unit gets per turn, not the bonus it receives from leadership.
I have no idea what this is replying to. If it's replying to my post, you misread it completely.

9**-2 pitchfork = put them after damage per hit
9-2** pitchfork = put them after the damage numbers. Might work better as (9-2)** pitchfork, but you get the idea
9-2 pitchfork** = put them after the whole damage "phrase"

Edit: The Damage-Attempts system works fine for me.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by artisticdude »

Eh, my bad. :) I misunderstood what you were saying.
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Pandarsenic
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Pandarsenic »

Yeah, something that can boost the number of attacks units make would be wildly imbalancing. XD
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by johndh »

Pandarsenic wrote:Yeah, something that can boost the number of attacks units make would be wildly imbalancing. XD
One extra attack per turn for my Thunderer line? Yes, please! :D
PeterPorty wrote:5X4 looks weird.
How about 5x4, 5*4, or 5,4? I realize it's probably a moot point since the current notation system is so deeply ingrained, and some amount of documentation would need to be re-written, and anyone reading old posts might be confused about the different system, and it's a minor nitpick that just kinda vaguely bothers me and I'm just going to shut up now. :oops:
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
Max
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Max »

we've had this discussion before:
http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=24914

i still think the hyphens is a bad choice (i'd prefer 9 x2)
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by ancestral »

Using icons for some information could save considerable space on the sidebar, and would be translation-friendly.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Atz »

Alink wrote:BTW, I mention here that reverting this feature means fixing inconsistencies about used modifiers by going in the other direction. That is, slow and swarm should not affect the sidebar values (in theory, traits too, but that's maybe different enough).
On traits, the difference between traits and things like slow, leadership, and time of day is that in about 99% of cases traits are permanent for the life of the unit. Off the top of my head, I think the only time they change is when a necromancer advances to a Lich and loses their traits and maybe a few campaign scripts here and there. So, it makes sense for traits to change the sidebar values because they're pretty much a permanent change to the base stats of the unit.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Dixie »

AFAIK, Dark Sorcerers advancing to liches don,t lose their traits. I think a unit's traits are permanent, save maybe for some shady WML manipulations, and even then I'm not too sure.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by norbert »

Dixie wrote:AFAIK, Dark Sorcerers advancing to liches don,t lose their traits.
What happens with the Lich is interesting. What Atz writes should probably happen in theory, but what Dixie writes happens in practice. (Tested with version 1.8.4.) The documentation says: "Most units have two traits. However, Undead units are assigned the single trait 'Undead', [...] The traits that are available to all non-Undead units are Intelligent, Quick, Resilient, and Strong." The Dark Sorcerer is a human, but its traits are not removed when it levels (see attachment).
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traits, from Sorcerer to Lich
traits, from Sorcerer to Lich
traits_Sorcerer_to_Lich.png (201.85 KiB) Viewed 2885 times
Last edited by norbert on August 26th, 2010, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Iris »

I've always loved to do that when playing IftU. Resilent+strong liches ftw!

In a more serious note, I have no idea if it's supposed to be allowed or not.
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johndh
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by johndh »

I think it would be reasonable for liches to keep attributes like intelligence, while losing ones like resilience. I mean, how much stronger are their bones than any other liches? (Okay, maybe a little if they got plenty of calcium. :P)
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Atz »

Huh. I always thought they lost their traits due to the whole "undead" thing... Guess I should pay more attention.

I think letting them keep some traits but not others would be unbalanced and confusing as far as gameplay goes, even if it might make some sense from a flavour perspective. You'd really have to leave them as-is, or remove them all.
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Re: Displaying attack info in 1.9

Post by Jodwin »

Throwing my two cents in, regarding tooltips I think it's bad to rely on them for basic info. First of all, how many people know that they even exist? Does the game tell you that by hoovering over perfectly normal-looking text you get extra information? Because to me personally it's rather counter-intuitive. Second, you need to consider the extra steps required to display the tooltip information which, for some people, is more important or useful: With just viewing the side bar you only need to hover over units, but with tooltips you need to first select them and then move the mouse to the opposite side of the screen. Might not be a big issue in games with very few units and with small screens, but it gets tiresome when there's a lot of units to check or if you're playing on a high resolution where the distances for the mouse pointer to travel get bigger and bigger.

Just to toss around some ideas, how about displaying only the base stats and then having a row of icons that currently affect damage (slow, ToD, leadership, etc...there could be some default icon for non-standard effects too). Then by hovering over that you'd get a tooltip showing the final value with all effects. This way everyone could easily tell what particular effects are currently taking place and what the unit's base damage really is.
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