Mainline use of Lotr names?

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TheGreatRings
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Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by TheGreatRings »

I've noticed a number of instances where names from lotr or other copyrighted series are used in mainline campaigns. Why is this, and is their some reason why this is not a copyright issue? Just curious. :)
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Turuk »

What names are you referring to, and in what campaigns?


As to your copyright question, characters are protected by copyright as long as they’re original and well-defined—the traits that probably make them desirable to use in your own work.

If a character has a distinctive name and well-defined personality they belong to the copyright holder, and you can’t use them without permission. Character names can even become well-known enough to warrant trademark protection.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by woodmouse »

Hmmm I have noticed those things also. I think it was TRoW and HttT where is those, I'm not sure if I remember correct...
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Akkarin345 »

It could just be coinscidence. I like writing and when i make up names sometimes they clash with names in books i have never read or seen etc.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by TheGreatRings »

Gwydion in the campaign liberty is a name I've seen before, in a series by Loyd Alexander. However, I think he took it from a Welsh myth or something, so its probably fine.

I think their's a river named Anduin on the map of Wesnoth. If so, that is either a big coincidence or lifted directly from lotr.

Then their's orcs, which is from Tolkien as well. However, orcs are now used in a variety of fantassy, and Tolkien took the word from some old language, so it seems iffy to me.


I like the name Delfadore. Its a cross between Gandalf and Dumbledore, perhaps the two most famous wizards, that does not infringe on either. Not sure that was the intent, but it works out nicely. :D
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Zachron »

I think it's in your head, man. :D
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

Names are very often shared across works, and are usually not a problem as long as they aren't obviously stealing the idea.

Gwydion is indeed an ancient Welsh legendary figure, and hence is fair game in any case.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Noy »

I doubt that if we used a place or character name once in awhile, that isn't a problem.., its fair use, like many other homages. Yet if we made a campaign or a era using Frodo, Strider, Bilbo, Gandalf, Sauron, ect. then it would likely cause some problems.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by SAM MK II »

The Great Rings wrote: Then their's orcs, which is from Tolkien as well. However, orcs are now used in a variety of fantassy, and Tolkien took the word from some old language, so it seems iffy to me.
Use of orcs, elves, dragons, dwarves and every other stereotypical fantasy monster is fine because every fantasy game maker is inherently incapable of making their own unique creatures, it's a disease of the industry but no one cares.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by jonadab »

The Great Rings wrote:Gwydion in the campaign liberty is a name I've seen before
Indeed, Gwydion Lord of Don, wasn't it?
The Great Rings wrote:However, I think he took it from a Welsh myth or something
That's certainly conceivable. A lot of the setting and ideas for that series are taken from such sources, though not, to my knowledge, most of the major characters. (A number of the minor characters definitely were lifted from mythology, though, notably the three fates.) I don't happen to know anything about a mytholoical Gwydion, though.
The Great Rings wrote:I think their's a river named Anduin on the map of Wesnoth. If so, that is either a big coincidence or lifted directly from lotr.
If there's a river named Anduin on the map of Wesnoth, I'm thinking that really ought to be changed, because it would be an extremely obvious LOTR reference. I don't recall seeing it, but then I haven't exactly pored over the Wesnoth maps, either.
The Great Rings wrote:Then their's orcs, which is from Tolkien as well. However, orcs are now used in a variety of fantassy, and Tolkien took the word from some old language, so it seems iffy to me.
No, that's totally fine. Orcs and goblins and things were mythical creatures before Tolkien touched them. If there were hobbits in Wesnoth, *that* would be a problem (because Tolkien invented those). But there aren't.

Woses are obviously supposed to *resemble* ents, but not in any infringing way. Mere ideas are not subject to copyright or trademark, only the specifics. Actually, legally speaking, we could probably get away with having hobbit-like creatures in Wesnoth, if we invented a Wesnothian name for them and stayed away from obvious references to specific characters, events, or cetera. D&D has halflings, which are basically the same idea. I don't think having such creatures in Wesnoth would add anything significant to the game, though. From a gameplay perspective they're either underpowered or redundant, possibly both, and what they add to the storyline possibilities (given that we are *not* going to take stories from Tolkien) can be easily dismissed.
The Great Rings wrote:I like the name Delfadore. Its a cross between Gandalf and Dumbledore, perhaps the two most famous wizards, that does not infringe on either. Not sure that was the intent, but it works out nicely. :D
I like the name Delfador too, but I'm pretty sure it predates Dumbledore, and I don't think the character is meaningfully based on Gandalf either, except in that he is a wizard. (But even that isn't quite the same. Gandalf is one of the Istari, and his power comes from who and what he is, not from training and building up experience. He was already like that the first moment he set foot in Middle Earth. Delfador on the other hand is more like a standard high-level role-playing-game mage, who started as a normal recruit at some point in the past. His strength and powers come from experience and practice, from the life he has lived and the things he has done. In other words, Delfador is human, albeit a particularly advanced and powerful human. Gandalf is not human, though he takes a resembling form; he's actually Ainur, a pre-existing being from outside the world.)
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by thespaceinvader »

Nope, Dumbledore pre-dates Delfador by about 6 years. The first potter was published in 97. And generally, the odd shout-out, like a name shared, for instance, with an existing work is, whilst technically not correct if that name was sufficiently original and recognisable, is generally overlooked as an homage to the existing work. The river anduin, for instance, is OK to my mind. but you're right, a race of short hairy-footed, hole-dwelling types called hobbits would probably not be OK. However, races of short people are perfectly fine - they pre-date Tolkein and go way back into myth.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Blarumyrran »

jonadab wrote:Orcs were mythical creatures before Tolkien touched them.
[citation needed]
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Urs »

The River/Isle of Anduin is the only one of those I ever noticed... Actually I played Wesnoth before I read Lord of the Rings (gasp!) and when I read it I thought "wait a minute...". I always thought it was some kind of tribute for the Tolkien-esque inspiration.

Delfador... I never thought of it as Gandalf + Dumbledore. And to be honest, I still don't. It's seems like a bit of a stretch. And very much agreed that Gandalf isn't really like Delfador at all, but they still both take on the "old bearded mentor who can do magic" role rather nicely. Though that role is all over the place in fiction - just look at Obi-Wan.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Zachron »

Syntax_Error wrote:
jonadab wrote:Orcs were mythical creatures before Tolkien touched them.
[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc#Old_English_influence

The word existed before Tolkien, but the race didn't.
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Re: Mainline use of Lotr names?

Post by Blarumyrran »

exactly.
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