Please don't use swear words in game text

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Actually...I don't know that "tree-hugger" is much better, considering that most people use it to refer to environmentalists.

But regarding cuss words...just to put in some 2 cents, they should be different. I honestly laughed when reading G.R.R. Martin's books, when they used words like the F-bomb, because it just wasn't period swearing. It sounded like the characters came straight out of this century when they spoke like that. Wesnoth cussing should be different. Fantasy cussing, for the purposes of "realism", and just because it offends fewer people, should be unique to the world. Which it can be. I'm trying to think of a word that was invented for a fantasy world, that was specific to that world...

[Federalist marshal]

First of all, I don't think we should compare it to Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic; not all of us are deeply religious...

Second of all, I don't think it should be removed unless, like, 20 people complain about it. A little profanity should be fine; it makes it realistic. In real life you don't hear *beep* when people swear. There should be a limit to how much, though...

I understand that Wesnoth is generally kid-friendly, but I'm pretty sure we're not the first people to expose them to profanity. And furthermore, many kids under 13 won't use words their parents tell them not to use.

[wsultzbach]

First of all, I don't think we should compare it to Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic; not all of us are deeply religious...

Second of all, I don't think it should be removed unless, like, 20 people complain about it. A little profanity should be fine; it makes it realistic. In real life you don't hear *beep* when people swear. There should be a limit to how much, though...

I understand that Wesnoth is generally kid-friendly, but I'm pretty sure we're not the first people to expose them to profanity. And furthermore, many kids under 13 won't use words their parents tell them not to use.

I agree, and additionally, I think most really young kids would find wesnoth too complicated.

[turin]

First of all, I don't think we should compare it to Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic; not all of us are deeply religious...

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Second of all, I don't think it should be removed unless, like, 20 people complain about it. A little profanity should be fine; it makes it realistic. In real life you don't hear *beep* when people swear. There should be a limit to how much, though...

I'm pretty sure more than twenty people have complained about it.

I understand that Wesnoth is generally kid-friendly, but I'm pretty sure we're not the first people to expose them to profanity. And furthermore, many kids under 13 won't use words their parents tell them not to use.

Both inane arguments.

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My view - I don't object to characters cursing in Wesnoth (I think I've written several lines of dialogue with "damn" in them), but they should use curses appropriate to the setting. And I would vote for staying away from sexual obscenities (f***, shag, etc).

[Dave]

Tree-shagger just sounds stupid. And not orc stupid.

You put is so eloquently.

I agree with this: it sounds silly, and the reason it sounds silly is because 'shagger' is a euphemism. Orcs wouldn't use euphemisms, and so it sounds censored.

There are plenty of much better sounding insults we could use which wouldn't offend anyone.

David

[CarpeGuitarrem]

First of all, I don't think we should compare it to Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic; not all of us are deeply religious...

I think most people would call that "intolerance". Unless you can give me a valid reason why Tolkien's Catholicism would pertain to the argument, don't bring it up.

[Kestenvarn]

Hum not really:
To hug:synonym of to embrace...
to shag: synonym of to f****, to make love....

From my view, it's a euphemism of a euphemism. Oh, they just looooove the trees.

And I agree, 'shagger' sounds idiotic - even if the line wasn't unimportant, it'd be a reason to change.

There may also be adults who would prefer not to read swear words in the games they play. That doesn't mean you can't produce such games; it just restricts your audience. And it would be polite to let people know in advance that certain campaigns or other material contains profanity, so that they can make an informed choice.

Adding warnings similar to the one you see on movie trailer does not seem like such a bad idea actually, for campaigns that merit them.

[AI]

While "tree-shagger" doesn't sound like something an orc would say, "tree-hugger" doesn't either, it sounds too 'lame' to me.

[thespaceinvader]

Tree-shagger's not brilliant (and honestly, i don't think any of the insults in the campaign are especially good), but tree-hugger is MUCH worse. It's a modern phrase, while tree-shagger isn't, though it's inspired by one.

I'm sure that something better could be worked out - maybe shakespearean/earlier than that, some obscure idiomatic insult translated from another language, or something tolkein-inspired (though clearly not actually something directly from tolkein).

[Sapient]

daisy-armed tree boys?
wood wimps?

[Shadow]

Most of you guys forget that some of the more evil curse words are pretty old and have historical roots. Soldiers of all times where a good source for them.

That said I don't have an objection against the use of Tree shagger though I haven't known the deeper meaning of it yet and even now after the subtile hint I don't see anything evil.
If it sounds stupid OK but a policy against the use of any words is stupid than you can also throw your TV out of the Window number one source of curses.

[JW]

There are plenty of much better sounding insults we could use which wouldn't offend anyone.

David

Is it really an insult then?


Seriously though, it does sound rather dumb. I'd use a different adjective than turin....but that's exactly what it is. No offense to the original writer or current maintainer.

[db0]

I'll try to respond to a few of the points here.

First of all, I don't think we should compare it to Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic; not all of us are deeply religious...

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

It has to do with the fact that we can't honestly compare it with Tolkien as far as curse words are concerned. Tolkien could be seen to have censored himself because of his religious beliefs.

I'm pretty sure more than twenty people have complained about it.

It seems about 5 to me

---

My view - I don't object to characters cursing in Wesnoth (I think I've written several lines of dialogue with "damn" in them), but they should use curses appropriate to the setting. And I would vote for staying away from sexual obscenities (f***, shag, etc).

I agree that we should have a more historically correct swearing but keep in mind that swearing in the past was not always very different than ours. I personally don't have a problem with sexual "obscenities", mostly because I don't consider sexual stuff obscene.
As I said before, a common theme for curses in the past was Blashemy so perhaps, if we can figure out which Gods each faction believes in, we can have them blaspheme to them. Then orcs can curse on Elves gods and somesuch.
Also, strange words to us can be really nasty in other times, lige "doggonit" was in the 1800s US. It sounds "silly" but it was used.

I agree with this: it sounds silly, and the reason it sounds silly is because 'shagger' is a euphemism. Orcs wouldn't use euphemisms, and so it sounds censored.

As I mentioned above, just because something sounds silly to us, does not mean that it was silly to them. The power of profanity fluctuates through the time and if you look back you'll find many "silly" words. Either you keep "silly" swears, or you get current swears which are not silly anymore but invoke an actual reaction from then audience.

Generally, I have no problem whatsoever with swear words in a violent war game (where your objective is to kill a lot). I don't have a problem with kids learning profanity as long as they learn the appropriate way to use it. Otherwise they're going to learn them anyway and not be able to use it correctly. This knee-jerk reaction to even silly swear words like "shag" is simply absurd.

In my campaign I've tried to find swear words that could sound authentic without invoking a genuine reaction from the audience. For instance, I've come up with "Blizzards!" which, by itself might not be strong enough but when you take into account a Saurian's cold blood and their strange use of language, could be seen as a candidate for one. If we are to find realistic non-offensive swear words for each race, it would require a creative writing team to actually work on it.

Just my 2 copper pieces.

[gotrek860]

In the rEd Dwarf series they use "smeg", which comes so often that if you watch a few episodes in a row you end up using it yourself... that is a solution. But cutting out swearing altogether seems as pointless an idea as that guy who wanted to call the undead "rock people"....

[Kestenvarn]

that guy who wanted to call the undead "rock people"....

Hahaha, I remember that.

good times