treatment of new players
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14th Giant Warrior
- Posts: 3
- Joined: August 29th, 2007, 3:26 pm
- Location: Stormheim
As a new player myself I haven't had much trouble with rude players. I've generally hosted games instead of joining them, and I name my games something along the lines of 'Friendly Game - Everyone Welcome!'. If you're annoyed at rude people I'd recommend that you try hosting games. Not only can you make a room-title that encourages playing nice, but as the host you'll also be able to kick people who aren't able to behave, possibly after giving a warning first if you're playing a team game and someone will lose an ally because of the kick.
Ditto what everyone has said, especially zookeeper.
Once on Loris River my partner kept yelling at me for not re-taking my lost villages straight away even though I had almost completely wiped out my opponent (something like 6 kills to 1 loss)! It's not only bad play that gets yelled at.
The problem is that your impatient ally has to sit in front of his computer watching passively as you make your move. For the typical savage, this is psychologically intolerable.
Once on Loris River my partner kept yelling at me for not re-taking my lost villages straight away even though I had almost completely wiped out my opponent (something like 6 kills to 1 loss)! It's not only bad play that gets yelled at.
The problem is that your impatient ally has to sit in front of his computer watching passively as you make your move. For the typical savage, this is psychologically intolerable.
Good is simply that which is willed. - Eugene Halliday
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Lastmerlin
- Posts: 45
- Joined: September 25th, 2007, 5:37 pm
thanks for you replys.
I will answer on some keywords:
I was used to be flamed by the enemy (people who cant loose
), this is the situation I used the (german, freely translated) proverb that *envy is the most honest way to pay tribute to someone*
You will have such people everywhere. As I already showed up the special problem of wesnoth is, that you get flamed by your ally.
Another question: Is the official server someway moderated / controlled ? The standard I know is, that if something is called *official* then it is moderated in some way, this means both the forum and the game itself. At the end the general behavior on this *official* servers falls back on the game itself and will change the view on it. If there are private servers they can do what they want there.
I will answer on some keywords:
I got it right, to change the server I need another version of Wesnoth ? Compiliing it should be no problem, as I compiled 1.2.6 myself, too and wesnoth is a *nice* program, that compiled without problems if you have all required packages.- play on the developement server
I am not terribly upset over those players, as I said its not the first game I play. But it is simply not fun and isnt a big motivation for new players.- dont be angered about this type of player
I was used to be flamed by the enemy (people who cant loose
), this is the situation I used the (german, freely translated) proverb that *envy is the most honest way to pay tribute to someone* You will have such people everywhere. As I already showed up the special problem of wesnoth is, that you get flamed by your ally.
If I log in to the server there are usually 1-3 games open to join in. These are more than 50% isars and this number even increases as there are a lot of strange maps and unknown eras I dont want to play. Is it possible to see the players that have already joined in _before_ joining in yourself ? I havent seen one. So you can't avoid these players without hosting the game yourself or using some other chat (icq etc).-avoid such players / avoid isars cross
I will do so now. The fact is, that new players will most likely not host games and join into existing ones first. I have hosted no single game so far. As there is always only one host of 2-6 players there will be a problem if everyone trys to do so. This is a good advice for sure, but its not a really good solution.- host the games yourself
Another question: Is the official server someway moderated / controlled ? The standard I know is, that if something is called *official* then it is moderated in some way, this means both the forum and the game itself. At the end the general behavior on this *official* servers falls back on the game itself and will change the view on it. If there are private servers they can do what they want there.
Right.Lastmerlin wrote:to change the server I need another version of Wesnoth ?
It's possible with dev versions now, you select game on the gamelist and nicks of people inside are highlighted on the playerlist.Lastmerlin wrote:Is it possible to see the players that have already joined in _before_ joining in yourself ?
Yes, there are mods, but they're not on all the time. If something particularly bad happens you can try getting help on #wesnoth on FreeNode.Lastmerlin wrote:Another question: Is the official server someway moderated / controlled ?
People are generally free to do whatever they want in their games. Thus server moderators are rarely going to act upon anything that happens in a game, that's the host's job. If you don't like what they do and can't convince them to change their ways, leave the game.Lastmerlin wrote:Another question: Is the official server someway moderated / controlled ? The standard I know is, that if something is called *official* then it is moderated in some way, this means both the forum and the game itself. At the end the general behavior on this *official* servers falls back on the game itself and will change the view on it. If there are private servers they can do what they want there.
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott
A couple of thoughts are bouncing around in my empty little head.
First to compare with other games and their communities:
I play 3 online games regularly, and a fourth I played a while ago, but switched to Linux in the mean time, and the lobby isn't finished for the Linux version.
BZFlag consistently has had the least irritations from other players. TASpring, also has had very little irritations too. Unreal Tournament is doable, mostly because the jerks on the server are too busy trying to not get shot. If you don't like the occasional swear word, you won't like it, but that hardly bothers me. Occasionally, you'll get somebody with a microphone who just can't shut up, and whines constantly. Fortunately, they are quite rare.
There are several things that BZFlag and TASpring have in common, even though they are totally different games, and I think these things contribute to a better online community.
First of all, both games have a registered username. If you see longhair on a bzflag server, you know it's me. This allows you to build a reputation for yourself. Some players on the Wesnoth server always use the same nick, myself included, but there is no guarantee. Case in point, I couldn't join the server the other day as longhair because somebody else was logged in.
Second, the servers in BZFlag are moderated by active administrators. If you're being a jerk on the server, you're going to be kicked in a big hurry. If you do it again, you'll be banned. Also, there is a feature that, in the absence of an adminstrator, allows the players to propose a kick and vote on it. You can only start a poll like this once every few minutes (depending upon the server setup) so there is no abuse of this feature. This has resulted in a culture that expects other players to be civil.
TASpring's lobby is also moderated, and idiots are routinely thrown out.
One thing that I like about TASpring's lobby is that the game keeps track of how many games you've played, and gives you an insignia based on that number. That way, you have at least a vague idea of the experience level of the players. When enough players join an individual battle, they usually take a look at those insignias, and try to make even teams. It's just more fun for everybody that way. It's as easy as saying, "OK, Jim has 1 bar, and Joe's got 3 bars, so they'll be evenly matched against two players with 2 bars each." It doesn't always work out, but it's usually good enough.
Speaking about Wesnoth itself, there are a few contributing problems that I'm not sure what to do about.
The point that some people aren't patient enough to wait their turn while you're moving is a good one. Most other games have the players all doing something all at the same time.
My biggest frustration is in trying to get a game together in the first place. I'm particularly fond of playing Defense of the Goblin, especially with Extended Era. The trouble is, it's hard getting even 4 players together to play it. Either there aren't enough online in the evening (EST) or you get 4 players, but two of them either don't have EE, or their version of EE is too old. Once the game starts, the two get automatically kicked, and you have to repeat the process again.
Once you've gone through the process of setting up a host, losing a few players, restarting, losing one, and finally getting a game going - only to find out that you have a jerk on your server, it's really frustrating to have to make the "do I kick this guy and start a 4th time or do I just deal with the guy" decision. Same goes for the gogogogogo types. Do you kick them and hope a 4th comes along, and that this 4th player has a chance to get in before the gogogo twit rejoins? Yeah, you can manually switch them out, but people often don't join a server if they see 0/4 slots available.
One thing that I think would help at least with the lack of era problem would be to have some sort of download system right in the lobby. At the very least, some sort of indication in the listing that you need to get the era in question. There is a little message saying what era it is, but it's much easier to miss than something like: "You will need to download Extended Era to join" or "Your Extended Era version doesn't match the host's version" Better yet, how about when you join a match, have a pop-up offering to download the needed era? Of course, the other players should get an indication that the player who is downloading the era is doing so, and know to wait. Yeah, some of the eras are big, but it doesn't take that long. Besides, if you aren't the last joiner, you probably have plenty of time to do so before the server fills up. An added bonus of this would be the fewer number of "Isar's Cross - default era" games on the server.
My other big frustration, already said by other people here is the "n00bs" meaning people who think they know something about the game but don't. I think there is a certain age where some boys (not all) are brimming over with energy, and it comes out in a bazillion chat messages - most of which are pointless. At the same time, they are in the "invincible" stage of their personality development. They are incapable of being self-critical. Combine the two, and you get a rather annoying n00b.
First to compare with other games and their communities:
I play 3 online games regularly, and a fourth I played a while ago, but switched to Linux in the mean time, and the lobby isn't finished for the Linux version.
BZFlag consistently has had the least irritations from other players. TASpring, also has had very little irritations too. Unreal Tournament is doable, mostly because the jerks on the server are too busy trying to not get shot. If you don't like the occasional swear word, you won't like it, but that hardly bothers me. Occasionally, you'll get somebody with a microphone who just can't shut up, and whines constantly. Fortunately, they are quite rare.
There are several things that BZFlag and TASpring have in common, even though they are totally different games, and I think these things contribute to a better online community.
First of all, both games have a registered username. If you see longhair on a bzflag server, you know it's me. This allows you to build a reputation for yourself. Some players on the Wesnoth server always use the same nick, myself included, but there is no guarantee. Case in point, I couldn't join the server the other day as longhair because somebody else was logged in.
Second, the servers in BZFlag are moderated by active administrators. If you're being a jerk on the server, you're going to be kicked in a big hurry. If you do it again, you'll be banned. Also, there is a feature that, in the absence of an adminstrator, allows the players to propose a kick and vote on it. You can only start a poll like this once every few minutes (depending upon the server setup) so there is no abuse of this feature. This has resulted in a culture that expects other players to be civil.
TASpring's lobby is also moderated, and idiots are routinely thrown out.
One thing that I like about TASpring's lobby is that the game keeps track of how many games you've played, and gives you an insignia based on that number. That way, you have at least a vague idea of the experience level of the players. When enough players join an individual battle, they usually take a look at those insignias, and try to make even teams. It's just more fun for everybody that way. It's as easy as saying, "OK, Jim has 1 bar, and Joe's got 3 bars, so they'll be evenly matched against two players with 2 bars each." It doesn't always work out, but it's usually good enough.
Speaking about Wesnoth itself, there are a few contributing problems that I'm not sure what to do about.
The point that some people aren't patient enough to wait their turn while you're moving is a good one. Most other games have the players all doing something all at the same time.
My biggest frustration is in trying to get a game together in the first place. I'm particularly fond of playing Defense of the Goblin, especially with Extended Era. The trouble is, it's hard getting even 4 players together to play it. Either there aren't enough online in the evening (EST) or you get 4 players, but two of them either don't have EE, or their version of EE is too old. Once the game starts, the two get automatically kicked, and you have to repeat the process again.
Once you've gone through the process of setting up a host, losing a few players, restarting, losing one, and finally getting a game going - only to find out that you have a jerk on your server, it's really frustrating to have to make the "do I kick this guy and start a 4th time or do I just deal with the guy" decision. Same goes for the gogogogogo types. Do you kick them and hope a 4th comes along, and that this 4th player has a chance to get in before the gogogo twit rejoins? Yeah, you can manually switch them out, but people often don't join a server if they see 0/4 slots available.
One thing that I think would help at least with the lack of era problem would be to have some sort of download system right in the lobby. At the very least, some sort of indication in the listing that you need to get the era in question. There is a little message saying what era it is, but it's much easier to miss than something like: "You will need to download Extended Era to join" or "Your Extended Era version doesn't match the host's version" Better yet, how about when you join a match, have a pop-up offering to download the needed era? Of course, the other players should get an indication that the player who is downloading the era is doing so, and know to wait. Yeah, some of the eras are big, but it doesn't take that long. Besides, if you aren't the last joiner, you probably have plenty of time to do so before the server fills up. An added bonus of this would be the fewer number of "Isar's Cross - default era" games on the server.
My other big frustration, already said by other people here is the "n00bs" meaning people who think they know something about the game but don't. I think there is a certain age where some boys (not all) are brimming over with energy, and it comes out in a bazillion chat messages - most of which are pointless. At the same time, they are in the "invincible" stage of their personality development. They are incapable of being self-critical. Combine the two, and you get a rather annoying n00b.
Smaller community like wesnoth has it's up and downs, so are the larger ones. You just have to live with it.
I've never seen a single server mod in my few month of playing online. You could solve the player abusing problems by having to register an account and login upon using the server, and certain players who have offended people will get banned. This will lead to new problems as far as i could predict, it's just a matter of time for wesnoth to retrace the steps of the infamy of the online servers.Another question: Is the official server someway moderated / controlled ?
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commanderkeen
- Posts: 183
- Joined: November 16th, 2006, 6:41 am
- Location: In your browser cache!
- Contact:
Here's my 10 cents 
I've experienced nasty players in the past. I joined a game once and one of the other players (not the host) was very bossy and told everyone what to do. I told him that each player should be allowed to choose of their own free will what to do, and to stop abusing the other players and calling them noobs when they were just taking calculated risks. Then he started swearing at me so I left the game, and started observing it under a different nickname. The guy was still bossing people about and calling them noobs, when they were in fact, more competent than him IMO.
The trick is in playing with players whose nicknames you recognise from on the forums or the server. People who are nice will have no need to change their nicks. Look out for more infamous players like Wintermute. People who are admins on the forums or played in the tournaments are the least likely players to start insulting you and are the most likely to give helpful advice. Also, those with actual names as their nicks are less likely to be abusive as opposed to "JesusDude" or "Pwnage". I also avoid joining games which don't allow observers, but thats just my personal preference
I've experienced nasty players in the past. I joined a game once and one of the other players (not the host) was very bossy and told everyone what to do. I told him that each player should be allowed to choose of their own free will what to do, and to stop abusing the other players and calling them noobs when they were just taking calculated risks. Then he started swearing at me so I left the game, and started observing it under a different nickname. The guy was still bossing people about and calling them noobs, when they were in fact, more competent than him IMO.
The trick is in playing with players whose nicknames you recognise from on the forums or the server. People who are nice will have no need to change their nicks. Look out for more infamous players like Wintermute. People who are admins on the forums or played in the tournaments are the least likely players to start insulting you and are the most likely to give helpful advice. Also, those with actual names as their nicks are less likely to be abusive as opposed to "JesusDude" or "Pwnage". I also avoid joining games which don't allow observers, but thats just my personal preference
If this is something you encountered online, I really have to feel sorry for you. I myself have not yet to have a match with these people. The worst I have got is when I'm playing with an experienced player, and I do a slight mistake, and they say if I was versing you I would use that against you.
But knowing the player I'm versing I can get away with it almost 70% of the time.
Perhaps a solution to the problem is making a 'pro' server, where all the so called pro's go to play. So they annoy eachotherr.
But knowing the player I'm versing I can get away with it almost 70% of the time.
Perhaps a solution to the problem is making a 'pro' server, where all the so called pro's go to play. So they annoy eachotherr.
I am Oreb, Lord of the Darthien
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm
I think that making a "pro" server would be a good way to empty the current servers of idiots with big ego's, but not much else.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
@Last Merlin
if you stay around long enough you will start to know many good "non abusive players.
What most exp. players ask for anyway is that somebody at least is polite and doesnt leave suddenly without offering surrender.
As you are investing hours in a game its really a big turnoff if somebody leaves without a word, if it happens 2 times with the same player I wont play with him a 3rd time.
One of the things I look for when hosting a game is that when a player joins that he says at least "Hello" and "Yes " when asked ready. Its simply exp. of me that if a player doesnt even can be bothered to type two words he will not see a game to the end.
Regarding offering help: Many players like to learn from their own mistakes. So many times its kind of polite to not offer unasked advice. Another reason could be that the player is simply doing other things between moves : surfing the internet , taking calls from his wife/girlfriend/work etc (happens a lot to me) Try to go to the developnment server anyway as your ally is able to mark places on the map without showing them to the "enemy " at the same time . Makes talking strategy much easier.
Try not to join games with strange setting like 30% exp. 5 gold per village and no obs. I noticed that players who chose these kind of settings are usally to impatient to try to level carefully their units and leave after a few turns (There are a few exceptions to this rule)
Last but not least: If you host a game learn the few commands and to enter the command mode : To switch players, kick players, ban annoying obs. etc.
if you stay around long enough you will start to know many good "non abusive players.
What most exp. players ask for anyway is that somebody at least is polite and doesnt leave suddenly without offering surrender.
As you are investing hours in a game its really a big turnoff if somebody leaves without a word, if it happens 2 times with the same player I wont play with him a 3rd time.
One of the things I look for when hosting a game is that when a player joins that he says at least "Hello" and "Yes " when asked ready. Its simply exp. of me that if a player doesnt even can be bothered to type two words he will not see a game to the end.
Regarding offering help: Many players like to learn from their own mistakes. So many times its kind of polite to not offer unasked advice. Another reason could be that the player is simply doing other things between moves : surfing the internet , taking calls from his wife/girlfriend/work etc (happens a lot to me) Try to go to the developnment server anyway as your ally is able to mark places on the map without showing them to the "enemy " at the same time . Makes talking strategy much easier.
Try not to join games with strange setting like 30% exp. 5 gold per village and no obs. I noticed that players who chose these kind of settings are usally to impatient to try to level carefully their units and leave after a few turns (There are a few exceptions to this rule)
Last but not least: If you host a game learn the few commands and to enter the command mode : To switch players, kick players, ban annoying obs. etc.
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Lastmerlin
- Posts: 45
- Joined: September 25th, 2007, 5:37 pm
now. Unfortunately this seems to be _really_ new, so that there are always less than 10 people and they are playing for testing purposes only. II will switch back to 1.2.6 until the 1.3.8 server is more populated.-
ubertuna-1
- Posts: 129
- Joined: September 26th, 2007, 8:51 pm
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