Is the less-randomness mod needed at all

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Sauron
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Is the less-randomness mod needed at all

Post by Sauron »

UPDATE
09:45 GMT 29.08.2009
The mod is BACK. Despite that - your support is needed. On editing the thread the poll got detatched. Temporarily I paste recent results in attachment.
Hi there!

I wish I could make a poll to investigate how big is the support/demand for the mod I could make within 2 months time. If it is not awaited by sufficient amount of GOOD players I will not bother to do it - If I get "support" of enough of players (I do not need help - just a vote in this thread) - I will do the mod for Wesnoth 1.2. If there will be enough opposing vioces - I will delay my project into unspecified future.

Although the subject of randomness was debated to death countless times, I encourage everyone who is voting to explain the reasons that stand behind his or her vote.

If you do not know yet what my mod is all about - read the description of the mod (links in my signature)

Poll-ified.
-Turin

Big thanx to the official sponsor of the poll - Turin
Attachments
Last results (screenshot).
Last results (screenshot).
poll.png (5.87 KiB) Viewed 5392 times
Last edited by Sauron on August 29th, 2009, 9:47 am, edited 14 times in total.
Sauron
Customize yourself random factor in game:
GET my mod [available as C++ sourcecode and compiled Windows executable] for wesnoth 1.6.4
at http://saurons-mod.zor.org/
Mod thread
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26803
Yogibear
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Post by Yogibear »

I can't seem to sort my thoughts, so i will just throw them in - randomly 8) :

Yes, there are times when i wish your mod could be standard. I remember those 2 thunderers running around on isar's cross for 10 turns and shooting nothing, not even a single time. Or that ueber-troll in Colosseum, having 26-6 and missing that naga 12 times in a row. Or being at 1800 damage dealt with 2300 EV...
And yes, i know i didn't tell about excessive luck here :wink: .

It's nice that you ask :) . That and your wording shows you changed a lot (positively IMHO).

Why the hell do you ask :? ? I mean this is a free world (at least where you live) just go ahead and do it if you want.

Why do you want support only from good players. Isn't it the bad ones that mourn the most? Why do they count less than the pro's?

Wouldn't it be cool to tell all those "bah, only luck"-guys: "Hey, get saurons mod and you will see the real cause why you have been defeated" 8) .

You want a more serious answer :wink: ? Alright.
IMO, there is enough feedback and annoyance of players, be they good or bad, asking for less randomness. So if you can find the time and the motivation, i would appreciate it. Not so much for myself maybe, but for them.
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Glowing Fish
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Post by Glowing Fish »

I used the mod, and think it could be an interesting idea, but it wouldn't be part of my regular play.
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Gus
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Post by Gus »

Although I like Wesnoth as it is I find such a mod a valuable add-on for people who want it, and would maybe give it a try.

And congratulations for the project, as zookeeper said in the project's thread, it's nice to see someone actually spend the time to implement his ideas.
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.
Sauron
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Post by Sauron »

Yogi Bear wrote:It's nice that you ask :) . That and your wording shows you changed a lot (positively IMHO).
I assure you dark side is very strong in me. And coping with it is really exhausting :wink: .
Yogi Bear wrote:Why do you want support only from good players. Isn't it the bad ones that mourn the most? Why do they count less than the pro's?
Wouldn't it be cool to tell all those "bah, only luck"-guys: "Hey, get saurons mod and you will see the real cause why you have been defeated" 8) .
It happens so I am quite often the "only luck" guy (in both directions though - I never agree I won thanx to skill if I see RNG favoured me) :) . Pros see clearly what happened, while noobs (I am giving away some INSIDE information about N00Bs) overestimate luck about 3 times. Another reason for pros: I am selfish - I want to play some good less-random games. One cannot hope n00bs will guarantee this (I do not say noobs cannot play good games - but are less likely to do it).
Yogi Bear wrote:You want a more serious answer :wink: ? Alright.
IMO, there is enough feedback and annoyance of players, be they good or bad, asking for less randomness. So if you can find the time and the motivation, i would appreciate it. Not so much for myself maybe, but for them.
I lost motivation after I played 4-5 games on my mod for 1.0.2 and found no more players willing to try it out. This poll is to either re-motivate me or to spare my effort.
Thank you for your feedback, Yogi. I hope we will meet at less-random end in end.
Sauron
Customize yourself random factor in game:
GET my mod [available as C++ sourcecode and compiled Windows executable] for wesnoth 1.6.4
at http://saurons-mod.zor.org/
Mod thread
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26803
Dave
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Post by Dave »

I think if you are going to go to the effort of maintaining this 'mod', go the whole way, and make your own game.

It can still be based on Wesnoth. It can still use Wesnoth's graphics, and re-use most of Wesnoth's source code. But make your own game design with different game rules and mechanics that accentuates the different style of play.

I like games with randomness, and I like games without. I like Chess, but I also like Backgammon and Settlers of Catan. I don't think I would like a version of Chess that tried to add some randomness or a version of Catan that tried to remove randomness.

Likewise, I'd love a new hex-based strategy game which is designed with different game rules and which ends up not involving so much randomness. I probably wouldn't like Wesnoth with almost identical mechanics but just a few changes to remove randomness.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
TheLost1
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Post by TheLost1 »

So, how does the luck-less mod compute things anyways?
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

I actually really like this mod. It is an interesting twist, and I sometimes actually find it more fun than the regular gameplay. It keeps me occupied. I always like to see new factions, new eras, and new mods for wesnoth. It is slightly less frustrating, which is always a +.
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appleide
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Post by appleide »

I voted for 2nd Option. Once in a while I want to try something new, so your mod, to me, has the same value as every other add-on out there. (qualititively speaking.), but of course, your mod also takes more work, so it actually worths more (quantitatively speaking).
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Gus
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Post by Gus »

TheLost1 wrote:So, how does the luck-less mod compute things anyways?
Just read the first post, which tells you that to get explanations on the mod, you just need to click the links in Sauron's signature.
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

I took the liberty of removing the word "perfect" from one of the poll choices. Maybe that should have been a fourth option. ;)
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
bert1
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Post by bert1 »

I like the luck element, although by the comments I've seen on games it seems that many people don't. It's another feature one has to take into account in one's strategy, and I like that. It also adds a psychological challenge: not to go on tilt after bad luck or take silly risks after good.

But like Dave I too would be interested in a diffeerent game with less luck.

I'm an average player, so Sauron may want to ignore my vote. (which was: mod not necessary)
Sauron
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Post by Sauron »

bert1 wrote:I'm an average player, so Sauron may want to ignore my vote. (which was: mod not necessary)
I will not ignore any vote. I asked good players to vote to discourage some new players, who blame luck despite they make terrible mistakes.

Dave: I am playing Wesnoth only because I like the mechanics and the main idea. There are only 2 things I really do not like:
1. "Excessive" influence of RNG on gameplay (and it is my opinion with respect to the subject, after playing zounds of games and reaching decent skill).
2. Non-ZOCed FOW. (I think I will include appriopriate patch in my mod)

Sapient: OK, but it would be nicer if you asked before you committed changes.

TheLost1 I do not know if it helps, but direct link to the function responsible for damage computations is here:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 210#181210

The amount of replies is stunningly low so far. Are people that afraid of discussing the matter or revealing their preferences?

I will see the results of the poll in 3-4 weeks and then I will take decision. So far - not that bad.
Last edited by Sauron on January 17th, 2007, 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sauron
Customize yourself random factor in game:
GET my mod [available as C++ sourcecode and compiled Windows executable] for wesnoth 1.6.4
at http://saurons-mod.zor.org/
Mod thread
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26803
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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

I voted the middle one. I'm completely happy with Wesnoth's randomness, but your mod looks like it'd make a nice change of pace sometimes.

Aside:
Dave wrote:I like games with randomness, and I like games without. I like Chess, but I also like Backgammon and Settlers of Catan. I don't think I would like a version of Chess that tried to add some randomness or a version of Catan that tried to remove randomness.
Steve Jackson Games produce a game called "Knightmare Chess" which adds a card game over the top of Chess. (eg. one card is "Treason: Swap the positions of a Rook and a Knight belonging to your opponent"). So long as you don't think of it as Chess, it can be a lot of fun.
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Post by Taurus »

I myself probobally wouldn't use such a mod. Like others, I like the luck element, and I think that it is a major part of what makes wesnoth so interesting.

However, I do take my hat off to you for the way that you are acting on your ideas, not just complaing about them. Also as it has been mentioned before, it is something that you can point out to people who complain about being lucky. On the other hand however, perhaps the new players should just suck it in because if they plan on sticking around they better get used to the idea of luck...
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