Hello to all Wesnoth fans! A few questions & suggestions

General feedback and discussion of the game.

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Mortifer
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Hello to all Wesnoth fans! A few questions & suggestions

Post by Mortifer »

Hey lads.
I really love this game. I have many strategy games, but this is a real pearl I must say!
I think that the only weakness of the game that it is way to "simple"!
Since the game is far from 'final' I have some questions/suggestions!

- More basic units.
- Units should have more upgrades.
- More damage types.
- Basic units should be recruited in a regular equipment, and the player should be able to buy equipment for them in the keep -> The ability to equip the units with armors/weapons [unit specific, example +1 spear for a level 2 spearman etc.]
- More buildings for income. [Example: gold mine, silver mine etc.]
- 'Global' Spells, first of all summoning spells.
- New resource for global spells -> mana
- More scenario objectives
- Mercenaries
- Diplomacy

Thats all for now, hopefully we will have some of these in 1.0!! :)
I would like to see some comments from the devs about these ideas.
IMHO all of these would enchance the gameplay.

Cheers, Chris.
fmunoz
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Post by fmunoz »

Wellcome! and thanks for the questions/suggestions!
(Sorry maybe I'm going to sound a bit harsh :-))
Wesnoth was developed followind the KISS principle so the game is simple but not dumb...
There are already more than 120 units in the game now.. much more than most comercial games... when you play the main campaign you could get more recruitable unit types (mages, horsemen, mermen, thieves, thugs, poachers, footpads, 2 kind of dwarves, gryphon riders...)
There are alredy magic items in the game but they are used sparsely (by design)
The building isuues was talked a few times... but whe picked KISS
Same for global spells and new resource.. wesnoth is wesnoth not Master of Magic (Sorry..)
Diplomacy? why? you can create games with sides allied or not.. later in game if you are playing vs humans you can ally (not gamewise but playerwise) talking with them and if you are playing vs AI diplomacy could be easily abusable...so is a no-no
Mercenaries could be "easily" (requires a bit of expertise) scripted using WML (Wesnoth Markup language) to appear in a level and ask gold to join you... but it could be a good idea :-) I'll give it a try



[1] KISS: Keep it simple, stupid!
Mortifer
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Post by Mortifer »

Thx for the reply!! :)
Indeed this is not Master of Magic, but addig that wouldnt make it a very complex game. Only 2 resource [gold and mana] is still very simple, IMHO! Global Spells would be a great and fun addition as well.
I am sure that lot of funs would love it!
Of course I can understand that it is against the design idea!

I am glad that you liked the mercs idea!

I have a question! There will be a way to add scripted events? Examples: at turn 10 reinforcements will arrive, you will obtain some gold at turn 20 etc.
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

there will not be a way...

there is a way :)

all scenarios are able to handle events, go and have a look at the scenario writing section in the Wiki, the explanation are actually quite good,

and if you miss something in the WML, you can always ask Dace :D

however, both adding units and adding gold is already in the scripting language
fmunoz
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Post by fmunoz »

Mortifer wrote: I have a question! There will be a way to add scripted events? Examples: at turn 10 reinforcements will arrive, you will obtain some gold at turn 20 etc.
The best way to find by yourshelf is to play the tutorial and the "Heir to the Trone" campaign (if not fully at lest more than half of the scenarios)
WML is very powerfull now... you with some sweat you could make the game to do wonderfull things :-)
Mortifer
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Post by Mortifer »

What is WML? I will take a lokk at it, but I dont know that what is that. :shock:
Btw, will there be a scenario/campaign editor in the 1.0 release?
Also another question, what new 'major; additions will be included later on? If we are allowed to know about them. 8)
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

WML is the Wesnoth Markup Language, it is used to store scenarios, save files unit stats etc... you can edit them to have the game fit your taste.


and what's great, it's all in plain text, so you can edit it yourself.

seriously, go and look at the scenario tutorial in the Wiki, it'll give you more info...
Dave
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Re: Hello to all Wesnoth fans! A few questions & suggest

Post by Dave »

Hi Mortifier,

Welcome to the Wesnoth forums. Some answers to your questions below:
Mortifer wrote:Hey lads.
I really love this game. I have many strategy games, but this is a real pearl I must say!
I think that the only weakness of the game that it is way to "simple"!
Well, according to the designers, the key strength of the game is that it is simple, while other games are complicated.
Mortifer wrote: Since the game is far from 'final' I have some questions/suggestions!
Who said the game is 'far' from final? I'd be interested to know how we give this impression.

In terms of features, I would say the game is ready to go, if we wanted it too.
Mortifer wrote: - More basic units.
- Units should have more upgrades.
We are still adding some units, however Wesnoth does currently have 128 types of units. I don't think this can be seen as too few units.
Mortifer wrote: - More damage types.
Most players have enough trouble keeping track of resistance against the six types of damage we have. I don't think adding more damage types would enhance the game.
Mortifer wrote: - Basic units should be recruited in a regular equipment, and the player should be able to buy equipment for them in the keep -> The ability to equip the units with armors/weapons [unit specific, example +1 spear for a level 2 spearman etc.]
There is already special items that you can pick up to enhance units. However these 'power-ups' are intentionally left few and far between.
Mortifer wrote: - 'Global' Spells, first of all summoning spells.
- New resource for global spells -> mana
I think this is coveredin the FAQ: http://www.wesnoth.org/faq.htm and in the WesnothPhilosophy section in the Wiki: http://wesnoth.slack.it/?WesnothPhilosophy
Mortifer wrote: - More scenario objectives
Possibly. This is generally up to scenario designers. The game engine supports most conceivable scenario objectives.
Mortifer wrote: - Mercenaries
I'm not sure how exactly you are meaning these would work, but the game does already enough flexibility to allow scenario designers to add some type of units that will join you for a fee.
Mortifer wrote: - Diplomacy
The game is mostly campaign-oriented, and I don't really see how we would fit diplomacy into the campaign.

It's not like you could get to a certain scenario and suddenly make peace with the orcs or something....

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
Mortifer
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Post by Mortifer »

David thanks for the long reply!
Well I thought that it is 'far' from the final version, because the current version is 0.71.
:)

I understand that 'magic system' now, I should've read more before posting. :oops:
Yup the mercs idea should work like that. [Some forces will join for a fee.]

I have some questions still.
- What is WML?
- What new 'major' additions will be included later on? If we are allowed to know about them.
- What can we edit? Can we add new units? New races? New weapons? etc.

I hope that Im not bugging you with my ignorant questions. :oops:
Ave
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Post by Ave »

Actually, WML is flexible enough to do something like making alliance with one of two sides or fight both of them. At least, I hope WML is flexible enough :)
So, theoretically there could be dialogs that lead to an alliance a branch of the story and such. You could also require a certain sum of money, leadership, etc. as a requirement for an alliance.
This wouldn't change the basic skirmish type combat system of Wesnoth.
fmunoz
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Post by fmunoz »

Mortifer wrote:D
I have some questions still.
- What is WML?
- What new 'major' additions will be included later on? If we are allowed to know about them.
- What can we edit? Can we add new units? New races? New weapons? etc.

I hope that Im not bugging you with my ignorant questions. :oops:
Check the wiki section of the wesnoth web. http://wesnoth.slack.it/
Dont forget to look at the Building Scenarios part
http://wesnoth.slack.it/?BuildingScenarios
Last edited by fmunoz on April 5th, 2004, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave
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Post by Dave »

Mortifer wrote: Well I thought that it is 'far' from the final version, because the current version is 0.71.
:)
The current version mainly means we have gone through seven major iterations since the projected started. A project's path could look like version 0.1 -> 0.2 -> 0.3 -> 0.9 -> 1.0, or it could go to version 0.15 (not to be confused with version 0.1.5) before it reaches 1.0 .

So the version number doesn't tell you that much.
Mortifer wrote: - What is WML?
WML is 'Wesnoth Markup Language'. It is the format in which all Wesnoth's configuration files are in. These configuration files are found in data/ under Wesnoth's installation directory, and generally have a .cfg extension.

WML can be used to define units, scenarios, types of terrain and so forth.
Mortifer wrote: - What new 'major' additions will be included later on? If we are allowed to know about them.
This is a very good question.

By version 1.0, we plan to have few or no new gameplay features. We feel that the current gameplay system is good, and works well.

On this note, btw, we don't mean to bite your or anyone's head off if they suggest new gameplay features. I'm sorry if the reaction to your posts has seemed like this at any time. It's just that we really like the game as it is, and although we might change it after 1.0, we want to see the game in its current form as a completed product.

There will likely be a few small changes: some more traits, a system for improving units after reaching the max level, perhaps. (As well as features that don't require any coding, such as new units).

We are still improving the interface, and that may get alot more work on it by 1.0. The AI is also going to undergo further improvements.

I'd like to get a map/scenario editor in there, but I don't think it's going to happen before 1.0.
Mortifer wrote: - What can we edit? Can we add new units? New races? New weapons? etc.
It is possible to edit all this with WML (and by editing/adding new PNG images). Things you can do:

- add units (see files in data/units/)
- add weapon types. You could even add weapons that can shoot across multiple hexes.
- add scenarios (see files in data/scenarios/)
- add events into scenarios. This is generally rather sophisticated
- change the way the random map generator works (see data/scenarios/Random_Scenario.cfg)
- add terrain (see data/terrain.cfg)
- add traits (see data/game.cfg)
- add the way units act in terrain and how good they are against different attacks (see data/game.cfg)
- the length of the day/night cycle, and how it affects things exactly
- the amount of gold each village gives you

The main thing that you can't do using WML is add new unit abilities (e.g. regenerates, heals, etc). These have to be added by coding them into the game.

WML is sophisticated enough that some people have considered making a completely new game, say with a science fiction theme, using the Wesnoth engine.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
Mortifer
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Post by Mortifer »

Oh, thanks for the informations! 8)
You devs liked the idea about more gold resource types?
Ie. gold mine etc.? .. or only villages will be the source of gold?
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

from the general feeling of this forum, I'd say villages are going to be the sole source of gold for the standard game...

however, if you have graphic skills and provide a nice picture, it might change :wink:

especially if you write your own scenarios
telex4
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Post by telex4 »

Boucman wrote:especially if you write your own scenarios
Indeed. I'd suggest downloading one of the campaigns being developed (Heir to the Throne, or any of Loyalist Campaign, Orcish Campaign, Undead Campaign in the Scenarios & Campaigns board) and having a look at the files in there, as Dave suggests.

If you feel like you have the time and patience, make a totally new scenario, with as many new modifications as the engine allows (new money sources, new units and weapons, buying new weapons, mercenaries, interesting new objectives and crude diplomacy).
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