healing didn't work like i thought it would...

xneko · Post by **xneko** » March 28th, 2006, 6:14 am

In the following snapshot, I thought the horseman would get up to 16 HP. 4 each from the shamans and 8 and from the druid, but after the turn, he only was 24 HP (only 8 added).

The scout was at 28HP and only got 8HP. I thought he would get 12HP added.

The mage was at 26HP and did max out at 28HP after the turn.

Well, as you could probably tell, I don't like how healing is capped and seems random also... I'm guessing that the horseman could possibly get only 4HP out of his position, but I haven't tested that.

I'd really like healing to be cumalitive. It makes sense, you're surrounded by a ton of healers, you should get a ton of healing!

Am I right?

JW · Post by JW » March 28th, 2006, 6:19 am

Heal stacking would unbalance the game more than you think. I am curious as to how the computer decides which units to heal if it is surrounded by 6 equally hurt units though.

Post by **Noyga** » March 28th, 2006, 7:48 am

Healing is not cumulative.
Btw the healing stuff just changed recently in SVN, and can be cumulative if the two healer are controled by different players (i didn't followed all the details, probably healing is done at the healer's turn ?).

toms · Post by **toms** » March 28th, 2006, 11:22 am

JW wrote:Heal stacking would unbalance the game more than you think. I am curious as to how the computer decides which units to heal if it is surrounded by 6 equally hurt units though.

But AFAIK, a unit can be unpoisoned and healed up by 8 hp at once.

scott · Post by **scott** » March 28th, 2006, 12:51 pm

toms wrote: But AFAIK, a unit can be unpoisoned and healed up by 8 hp at once.

Not currently.

Post by **Dave** » March 28th, 2006, 1:34 pm

So when you are sick do you visit eight different doctors, and expect to get well eight times as fast?

elanthis · Post by **elanthis** » March 28th, 2006, 5:09 pm

So when you are sick do you visit eight different doctors, and expect to get well eight times as fast?

Since when does realism have anything to do with anything in Wesnoth?

KISS doesn't apply just to rules, but also to players understanding how the mechanics work. The cap, in my opinion, makes understanding healing a lot harder than it should be.

The simple rule could be: you get X HP for each adjacent healer. Healers can dish out X HP to every adjacent unit. A healer cures poison instead of healing a unit if the unit is poisoned. A village gives Y HP or cures poison.

The current Wesnoth rule takes a number of paragraphs to explain, and even once a player reads them, players have a lot of trouble understanding which units adjacent to a healer will get healed.

Also, if you're going to go with the realism line (bad!), it's entirely possible to get treated for poison and get wounds cleaned and stitched up at the same time. And yes, when I'm badly injured, I *do* visit multiple doctors; generally a number of specialists. (One doctor might set my broken ribs, another might stitch the cuts on my leg, and another might treat my burns.)

JW · Post by JW » March 28th, 2006, 5:34 pm

elanthis wrote:Since when does realism have anything to do with anything in Wesnoth?

Also, if you're going to go with the realism line (bad!),

Yeah, let's make spears do Fire damage and swords do Cold. That way we can take more realism out of the game...

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » March 28th, 2006, 6:11 pm

think of it this way. (a story explanation, not gameplay, or coding)

healing has to be done in a certain order, but not too fast, otherwise it does more harm than good. That means that only a certain amount of healing can be done to a unit, in one order/place and only a certain amount at a time, otherwise it is bad for the guy being healed.

Glowing Fish · Post by **Glowing Fish** » March 28th, 2006, 6:13 pm

I think the short answer to this is that healing is a strategic matter, not a tactical one.
The presence of healers usually is minor enough having a healer next to you won't often make the difference between life and death- 8 HP is only the amount of damage a Walking Corpse can do, after all. So healing doesn't usually work for units stuck on the front lines.
Healing is used more as a strategy as you work your way down the map. It should be used as a way to regenerate your fighters to full strength inbetween bouts of fighting.

Post by **turin** » March 28th, 2006, 10:14 pm

The simplest answer of all is that such a change is much discussed on the dev mailing list, and chances are the max-healing-per-unit requirement will be revoked. Enjoy.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » March 28th, 2006, 11:50 pm

Limiting the power of healing was an intentional design decision. While this may change, it is good to know the reason behind it.

I liked the way Dave put it in this thread:

Dave wrote: ...
OgreMage wrote: 2. Why can't healers stack, so that if one unit that is poisoned and damaged be both healed and cured if he has 2 healers next to him?
Many games make healers very powerful. So much so that many strategy games are based around healing, especially in campaigns. These games typically involve a repetitive strategy revolving around constantly exploiting healing abilities to guarantee zero-loss battles while units amass experience.

I specifically did not want this to be the case in Wesnoth. I wanted healing to be available, but rather limited in its power. Healing would be a small aspect of the game, not its central focus.

None of the great battles of history were won by stationing a party of physicians in the middle of the battlefield to repeatedly 'heal' one side's injured units.

Also it just makes sense. If you are sick, do you get better faster if you visit two doctors instead of one?
...

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » March 29th, 2006, 12:03 am

turin wrote:The simplest answer of all is that such a change is much discussed on the dev mailing list, and chances are the max-healing-per-unit requirement will be revoked. Enjoy.

Huh?
the way i read the ML, nobody is suggesting that a single unit should be able to be healed more than 8 HP (+2 resting) per turn -- except via allied healing, which seems to be for coding reasons.

The devs are trying to simply healing, and may not yet be all on the same page, but i don't believe any dev has a vision for healing that contradicts Sapient's "Dave" quote.

Post by **turin** » March 29th, 2006, 2:10 am

Sorry, I was replying to this, not the whole thread:

The current Wesnoth rule takes a number of paragraphs to explain, and even once a player reads them, players have a lot of trouble understanding which units adjacent to a healer will get healed.

Post by **Kestenvarn** » March 29th, 2006, 2:38 am

elanthis wrote:The simple rule could be: you get X HP for each adjacent healer. Healers can dish out X HP to every adjacent unit. A healer cures poison instead of healing a unit if the unit is poisoned. A village gives Y HP or cures poison.

That sounds like it actually would help a lot.

Not at all likely of this happening, but what do people think of seperating poison treatment from the healing ability; then adding a qualifier to both Heal and Regen that can be modified saying how many points it restores? For example...

Heals
Cures

Instead of the above fixed abilities, changing them to...

Cure (Removes poison.)
Heal+2
Heal+4
Regen+1
Regen+8

It might look more complicated, but it would allow faction creators more flexibility with their units than the current system and be easier to understand as well. If it was tied in with a tag that allowed faction makers to alter the amount villages/resting restored, like Sauron was asking for...