New user Campaign - Heiress to the Throne

[Armitage]

Just curious if anyone else has encountered similar problems with this user campaign. I just recently downloaded this campaign and was attempting to play it. First, I noticed that the main character Li'Sar has a bow attack, but it is not ranged but instead a melee attack. Second, Kalenz has a magical attack, but again it is melee instead of ranged as in the offical HttT campaign. Lastly, while attampting to play the Sceptre of Fire scenario ( which I replayed several times ) the Sceptre never appeared. I explored the entire map ( and different maps - restarted game from previous scenario to generate different map for the Sceptre of Fire scenario ) but never found the Sceptre. It just was not there. Which of course made it impossible to continue the campaign.

[toms]

As far as I noticed, the campaign is all stupid.

I started it once, but I never played it. I just saw the story and the begin, and decided that it´s only a bad parody.
I will remove it from my PC.
[/my opinion]

[aeron]

I also noticed the same problems. I also wonder why Li'Sar and Konrad have no commanding skills (no improving less leveled units).
After having killed all the leaders in the "Scepter of fire" I never foud it.
I think this could have been a very good campain if we really had had the personal adventures and the point of view of Li'Sar, daughter of Asheviere and thinking Konrad is a fool usurpator, just like in Konrad's campaign.

[rusty]

Hi all,

(1) Heiress to the Throne is a straight gender-inversion of HTTT; something of an experiment since we don't have any female-heroed campaigns 8( Naturally, this means it doesn't fit in the standard Wesnoth universe.

(2) There are two versions: one for Wesnoth 1.0, and one for 1.1. The 1.0 version is less tested 8( Which version of Wesnoth were you using?

(3) I would love to do a "mainline-compatible" campaign with Li'sar up to the point of Hasty Alliance. It could add some interesting backstory to HTTT, as well as providing the other 50% of the world with a hero they can identify with.

Cheers!
Rusty.

[Saphy]

I really like this campiagn; however, it wasn't available for download anymore. I had the one that works with 1.0, but as 1.2 is released, many units has missing sprites now. Could you post new version please? thank you.

[Saphy]

As far as I noticed, the campaign is all stupid.

I started it once, but I never played it. I just saw the story and the begin, and decided that it´s only a bad parody.
I will remove it from my PC.
[/my opinion]

How is it any less stupider than the original Heir to the Throne? It is mostly the same story. I haven't finished this campaign yet though, so maybe I am wrong. It is very difficult to find campiagn with heroine; this is sexism or just coincident? I don't know.

[irrevenant]

How is it any less stupider than the original Heir to the Throne? It is mostly the same story. I haven't finished this campaign yet though, so maybe I am wrong. It is very difficult to find campiagn with heroine; this is sexism or just coincident? I don't know.

When the issue of gender balance comes up, numerous people argue for a predominantly male setting using realism as a justification. ie. Wesnoth is deliberately sexist because it is based on a mediaeval Europe that was historically sexist. So it's sexist for reasons of historical accuracy.

I have argued the other way - given that the setting includes magic it's entirely reasonable that it could diverge from historical reality (and if it could be less sexist isn't it our duty to make it so?) - but it got little support given the combination of the realism issue and the fact that it would take additional work to change.

WRT to Heiress of Wesnoth, when people say "the story is stupid", they mostly seem to be saying "It's inconsistent with the Wesnoth setting". It should probably be made clearer that it's set in some sort of parallel universe.

[Dave]

When the issue of gender balance comes up, numerous people argue for a predominantly male setting using realism as a justification. ie. Wesnoth is deliberately sexist because it is based on a mediaeval Europe that was historically sexist. So it's sexist for reasons of historical accuracy.

I agree with you that I think this argument is silly. We go with Wesnoth not being realistic for all sorts of gameplay and storyline reasons, I think we should do the same for female units.

I would point out though that HttT does this in a somewhat subtle way with its ending.

Some campaigns with more female heroes would be nice though. A campaign focused on Li'sar would be cool.

David

[commanderkeen]

Yeah, like the one where you are Eldred (what was the campaign called?), only I reckon the Li'sar one would be cooler because

Spoiler:

she isn't evil til the end (select to reveal))

Wesnoth is slightly sexist, and mainly for the Medieval reason, although the elves are fair and outlaws are too, the Orcs and Dwarves have reasons (female orcs/dwarves look like males). The drakes... well... umm... The loyalists are highly sexist though. The only female units they have (mages) are the passive healing or not direct combat sort. Perhaps Wesnoth should have female equivalents for all units without a good reason to be male-only (knights have an iffy reason, but for historical reasons...). Naga are a good example. The male ones advance to different things from the females (not good, but never mind) but that allows both to exist while not being wierd (female grand knights?)

[turin]

Maybe we really are just "sexist".



[rant]
I put it in quotes because there's two kinds of sexism - real sexism, and what is often called sexism but is really just the belief that yes, men and women have different roles and cannot do all the same things. (I.e., men would probably make better physical fighters than women.) I'm really tired of the latter being called sexism. It's not. Just like thinking homosexual acts are wrong is not "homophobia".
[/rant]

[commanderkeen]

The problem is that there's a lack of female players to decide whether we're sexist or not. So we end up arguing about it. Turin, I believe what you said isn't a rant, it's most likely the truth. If we aren't sexist, then we've got twice as many unit animations to do. If we are sexist, we'll end up with Wesnoth being an only-male game (which it almost is). IMO, Wesnoth is sexist but not sexist. In other words, like anything out there, it's sexist because it works better and makes sense, but it's not really sexist for only having female units as passive scantily clothed princesses.

Ok, that post probably doesn't fit with the one I posted a few minutes ago, but I do agree with Turin's rant. It's like the fact that if you try to keep everybody happy, no-one will be happy, and that all big companies are always seen as tyrants by some people (Microsofts the exception: It isn't just seen as a tyrant, it is one)

It's inevitable that we are sexist. It's like everybody sins, even saints. Or the fact that nobody's perfect.

And why does this topic have the title "New" user campaign?
I thought Heiress to the throne was really old...

[Zhukov]

[rant] stuff [/rant]

Catholic ahoy.

[Dave]

I put it in quotes because there's two kinds of sexism - real sexism, and what is often called sexism but is really just the belief that yes, men and women have different roles and cannot do all the same things.

Believing that it is more appropriate for men to be soldiers than women in the real world is one thing.

Shunning female characters in a light-hearted fantasy strategy game which is clearly unrealistic and fairly abstract is a different matter indeed.

David

[Sapient]

I think the main problem they have with Heiress is it is a complete rip-off with the only justification being some kind of moral obligation to equalize genders. It wouldn't suffer thus if it was an original campaign that actually targetted new content towards girl-gamers.

Having said that, I think it is fine, although I do consider it slightly silly.

[Dave]

[rant] stuff [/rant]

Catholic ahoy.

Please no bashing of other people's religions on our forums. (And this wasn't exactly "bashing", but is the kind of thing that can very very easily either spark a flame war, or create fuel toward a future flame war).

David