Northern Rebirth

[roland37]

Are you sure you have the right campaign - "Northern Rebirth" because there is no 'Into the Depths' or 'Vengence' scenarios, or mages named Hylases in this campaign...

i think he ment the south guard

[Truper]

I've been playing Northern Rebirth for the first time, and enjoying it a lot. It has a lot of nifty ideas, is generally well-written (fairly numerous typos excepted), and fun to play, if somewhat exhausting, since most of the scenarios are so large. I found The Pursuit to be especially enjoyable. Its full of surprises, has funny dialog, and exploring that immense dungeon gives it an almost RPG-like feel. Bravo!

I am wondering if I am missing something about the scenario Settling Disputes. If you can avoid losing on the first turn, which is largely a matter of chance, it doesn't seem possible to wade through the hordes of Gryphons, Trolls and Ogres in the time you have. In my latest game, I hadn't even attempted to cross the river yet when the turns ran out. I am playing on Spearman difficulty, using version 1.3.6, and had 25 turns. Perhaps I was simply being too cautious, but there were not many Dwarves left in my recall list, so I didn't want to lose any, and since the map is all mountains, Dwarves are the units of choice.

Anyone have a plan that works for this scenario?

[Truper]

I've just given Settling Disputes another go, and have concluded that it really is impossible to win. With only enough gold for 5 recalls, getting to an enemy who is recruiting 4 or 5 level 2 troops per turn just isn't going to happen.

[hagabaka]

I was able to finish Settling Disputes by turn 18, although I was playing on peasant difficulty. Although you have gold for only 5 recalls, you should have 6 characters recalled for you (three magi, drake, ghost and elf), plus the leader, and another unit is automatically recalled too (maybe different on other difficulties). My recalls were one dwarvish lord, dragonguard, halberdier, outlaw and trapper. I wanted to have some fast moving units, but ended up not using the outlaw and trapper very much.

In terms of strategy, the first turn should be easy to survive as long as the two white magi can defeat the lich, and the arch/great mage blocks the village to the east from the troll (the wounded dwarf leader always went to that village on the second turn).

For the rest, I would just advance at a cautious but steady pace. Have the magi cross the river after they and the dwarf leader are healed and occupy the villages. Gryphons might come but they'll usually target the berserkers, as long as you completely block units with low HP. The other units hurry across the river ford in a tight group so no more than two gryphons attack you on the river. Stay on advantageous terrain and draw back when necessary.

[Taurus]

I've just given Settling Disputes another go, and have concluded that it really is impossible to win. With only enough gold for 5 recalls, getting to an enemy who is recruiting 4 or 5 level 2 troops per turn just isn't going to happen.

Hey Truper,

Glad you like the campaign

As far as Settling Disputes go, hagabaka's advice is a good start. By now the units you start with should be pretty powerfull, and then you can recall a pick of your best units, so you should have a tidy little strike force. I would reccomend staying in a tight group, and march in and assisnate Ro'Arthian as quickly as you can. Another thing to note is that I believe this scenario is in need of some ballancing, (currently in process) so if it is indeed impossible, then I wouldn't feel so bad about hacking in and giving yourself 5 extra turns or so...

[Edward V Riley]

I recently restarted this campaign. My other one that I was playing as I downloaded the development version was on the stable version and for some reason the saves don't work. Well, no matter. I was only at the end of the second scenario.

I've noticed a slight problem while replaying this first scenario...it seems some of my units lose an xp every round. I upgraded a spearman and made a kill making it 8/40 xp..the next round it was 7/40. Another, I used a woodsman to get 17/18 xp...the next round it was 16/18. Is this normal?

[Truper]

hagabaka's advice was indeed good, but his spoilers were better It turned out that I needed 5 things that I didn't have. I tend to play without reloads wherever possible, so when I was able to complete The Pursuit on my first try, I just moved on. However, I'd lost both the Drake and the Wraith, so they didn't follow me into the the next scenarios. I also never found the Rod of Justice, since by chance one of the White Mages landed the killing blow on the Lich, so there was no need to follow him into the Great Chamber, and of course the first expedition I had sent up there died.

With the Drake, Wraith, and Rod, things were easier, but what it turned out I really needed was for the ai to send most of its troops off to the west for reasons I can't even guess at, and also a fair bit of luck at the end. I do agree that the scenario is in need of balancing, either by giving more starting gold, decreasing the number of enemies, or giving more time. My personal preference would be for increasing starting gold. It is also quite possible to lose on the first turn, which is a bit annoying.

One general "problem" I am having with the campaign is that I always want Dwarves for everything. All the maps so far are either caves or mountainous, so Dwarves are going to be preferred for tactical reasons, as well as for the fact that they have level 3, which the Outlaws do not. I am currently playing the Eastern Flank, and have several Dwarven Lords with around 100 hp, since they have AMLA'd so many times, which is kind of fun, but I feel more like a Dwarvish leader than a human.

[hagabaka]

Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically recall up to 6 strong units if the user missed the optional characters in The Pursuit. But I'm not sure what should be done if the player got the characters and lost them.

[Taurus]

I've noticed a slight problem while replaying this first scenario...it seems some of my units lose an xp every round. I upgraded a spearman and made a kill making it 8/40 xp..the next round it was 7/40. Another, I used a woodsman to get 17/18 xp...the next round it was 16/18. Is this normal?

That is really strange, I have never experinced anything like it... could you perhaps provide us with a savegame, or even a couple of screenshots? Does this happen specificly on this campaign or does it happen in other campaigns as well?

One general "problem" I am having with the campaign is that I always want Dwarves for everything. All the maps so far are either caves or mountainous, so Dwarves are going to be preferred for tactical reasons, as well as for the fact that they have level 3, which the Outlaws do not. I am currently playing the Eastern Flank, and have several Dwarven Lords with around 100 hp, since they have AMLA'd so many times, which is kind of fun, but I feel more like a Dwarvish leader than a human.

So far there has been mostly caves and mountains yes, and I aggree dwarves come in very handy for the rest of the game, but I found that if I leveled up a couple of Royal Guards/Halberdiers they come in extreamly handy as well - especially in the forests and out in the open. At this particular point in the game, there are several recruitment choices you can make and they all will work. But you gave me an interesting idea - should I take out the dwarves from the recall list (they are already off the recruitment list) to force the player to recruit more humans...

Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically recall up to 6 strong units if the user missed the optional characters in The Pursuit. But I'm not sure what should be done if the player got the characters and lost them.

I'll figure out something. I aggree that the campaign should be playable without many of the characters - which is likely to happen if you don't save/load. Anyhow, I should have it balanced by the next release.

[Edward V Riley]

The xp thing only happened in the first scenario. I'm going to replay this one in the hardest mode soon, so if it happens again, I'll get some screenshots and send them.

I like the story and idea behind the campaign and am having fun with it. The fact I'm going to play it again in a different mode should tell you how much I've enjoyed it.

I've found that the thugs are pretty useful to level up in some of the scenarios, especially when you can give a highwayman one of the 3 holy waters. So don't feel you have to stick with just dwarves. Variety in your ranks means you've got different units to handle different situations. I've even took the time to level up a few ranged oriented units, so I can have a bit of diversity.

WHy is only the footpad-Outlaw rogue not given a level 3 option anyway? Perhaps call it a Prowler and give it an ambush ability?

I Am also having a lot of trouble with the deprecated WML messages. Any way I can remedy this?

[Truper]

Deprecated WML messages makes it sound to me like you are playing the 1.2 version of the campaign under 1.3.

So far there has been mostly caves and mountains yes, and I aggree dwarves come in very handy for the rest of the game, but I found that if I leveled up a couple of Royal Guards/Halberdiers they come in extreamly handy as well - especially in the forests and out in the open. At this particular point in the game, there are several recruitment choices you can make and they all will work. But you gave me an interesting idea - should I take out the dwarves from the recall list (they are already off the recruitment list) to force the player to recruit more humans...

Well yes, I had a few Royal Guards by the end of the campaign, and they are of course useful, but the Dwarven Lords are still even moreso. Now that I know the campaign fairly well, I'd advise anyone playing it to really load up their recall list with Dwarves by recruiting more of them than they need during Clearing the Mines, so they will be available for the rest of the campaign. That's what I did on my second playthrough, and it made things *much* easier. I can understand why you'd consider removing the Dwarves from the recall list, but I think its a bad idea for two reasons. Firstly, being unable to recall units that have gained a lot of experience during a campaign would be annoying to a player, and secondly forcing the player to fight in mountains with Loyalists would be frustrating. If you decide to make the change anyway, I think you'll need to warn the player beforehand to avoid the first objection as much as possible, and make the later scenarios easier to avoid the second.

BTW, one small bug I found: If Anita (I'm pretty sure that's the right name, anyway the Elvish Sorceress), dies, she uses Talin's portrait to give her dying "you'll have to finish your mission without me" message.

[Taurus]

Deprecated WML messages makes it sound to me like you are playing the 1.2 version of the campaign under 1.3.

Aggreed. I hope you are not playing the version you downloaded from the campaign server. Say, I probobally should delete that to avoid confusion...

Well yes, I had a few Royal Guards by the end of the campaign, and they are of course useful, but the Dwarven Lords are still even moreso. Now that I know the campaign fairly well, I'd advise anyone playing it to really load up their recall list with Dwarves by recruiting more of them than they need during Clearing the Mines, so they will be available for the rest of the campaign. That's what I did on my second playthrough, and it made things *much* easier. I can understand why you'd consider removing the Dwarves from the recall list, but I think its a bad idea for two reasons. Firstly, being unable to recall units that have gained a lot of experience during a campaign would be annoying to a player, and secondly forcing the player to fight in mountains with Loyalists would be frustrating. If you decide to make the change anyway, I think you'll need to warn the player beforehand to avoid the first objection as much as possible, and make the later scenarios easier to avoid the second.

Hmmm, I'll figure out something. But I aggree, this campaign should be fun not frustrating. Once again, thanks for the imput.

BTW, one small bug I found: If Anita (I'm pretty sure that's the right name, anyway the Elvish Sorceress), dies, she uses Talin's portrait to give her dying "you'll have to finish your mission without me" message.

Interesting - thanks for pointing that out. I'll look into it.

[joshudson]

So far there has been mostly caves and mountains yes, and I aggree dwarves come in very handy for the rest of the game, but I found that if I leveled up a couple of Royal Guards/Halberdiers they come in extreamly handy as well - especially in the forests and out in the open. At this particular point in the game, there are several recruitment choices you can make and they all will work. But you gave me an interesting idea - should I take out the dwarves from the recall list (they are already off the recruitment list) to force the player to recruit more humans...

I really would rather you did not. Taking away many levelled units is bad gameplay wise.

[Iris]

BTW, one small bug I found: If Anita (I'm pretty sure that's the right name, anyway the Elvish Sorceress), dies, she uses Talin's portrait to give her dying "you'll have to finish your mission without me" message.

Interesting - thanks for pointing that out. I'll look into it.

That's because the death macro for Anita's death has the first message with description "Tallin" in there.

[Taurus]

Interesting - thanks for pointing that out. I'll look into it.

That's because the death macro for Anita's death has the first message with description "Tallin" in there.

Indeed. It has been fixed and I am in the process of comitting the changes.