On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Twilight_Alchemist
Posts: 12
Joined: September 5th, 2012, 3:42 am

On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

Post by Twilight_Alchemist »

I think that evolution is an absolutely fascinating topic and I wanted to apply it to the creatures of Irdya. This excludes the humanoid species (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Dunefolk, Trolls, Ogres, and Merpeople) or pure magical (Woses) purely because I don't want to get into that. I'm only going to be using units from mainline 1.15 for this since that keeps things more simple. In addition, I'm using earth terms since I don't really have a Wesnothian equivalent language to do it in,unless there is one and I don't know it. (That and most Irdyan creatures aren't that different from Earth). (Honestly, this is mostly me just organizing the monster units from various mainline campaigns into one location. The title for this thread is what I suppose a Wesnothian Darwin would probably title his book, though I suppose this is more of a Wesnothian Linnaeus' Systema Naturae situation.) To begin with:

"Arthropods"
Giant Scorpion, Giant Spider (Mainline), Cave Spider, Giant Ant, and Monster Crab (Under the Burning Suns.)

"Cephalopods"
Cuttle Fish, Tentacle of the Deep (Mainline), and the Kraken (Dead Water).

"Mammals"
Giant Rat, Wolf, Horse, Bat, Yeti (Mainline), Dustbok, and Tauroch (Under the Burning Suns)

"Birds"
Falcons, Roc, pre-dead Chocobone, and probably Gryphons? (Mainline)

"Reptiles"
Fire Dragon, Sea Serpent, Water Serpent, Wyvern, Saurians, Drakes, Nagas (Mainline)

These are the rough class distinctions that I could think of for them. The Saurians, Drakes, and Nagas are included here since they don't look like humans, but with [blank](fins, big teeth, pointy ears, short stature, etc.)[/blank]. Plus I think somewhere in mainline it's mentioned that the Drakes are descendants of Dragons so, I think they fit in this discussion. What this has shown me is that Irdya needs some more unique fauna. I'll probably expand on this later, give some more categories. If there are any that I missed (like those mentioned in dialogue or something of the sort), please let me know.
Co-creator of Ice Age Fun. Former username is King_Link (IAF credits). Current Project is Ice Age Fun Redux (to be announced)
User avatar
jaeslin
Posts: 19
Joined: May 1st, 2020, 5:56 pm

Re: On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

Post by jaeslin »

Sounds like an interesting idea however I don't think you will get it in mainline (they tend not to add much even if it is of great quality to maintain clear standards for novice players and have a simple lore which doesn't contradict itself). I don't know how exactly you plan to add evolution in Wesnoth (I suppose enhancing the description of most monsters/animals and adding categories).
I think your scientific approach is interesting but it should not get too academic or it will get too far from mainline Wesnoth (In a world where magic is quite common too much rational thinking is a bit awkward). Maybe creating a Wesnothian equivalent language for evolution and species classification (I don't think there is one) would be the solution. You could recreate entire species, explaining their links, their origin, rival theories about their nature and add some new creatures to make it more interesting.

I totally agree a more complex fauna would be great (not just epic dragons or monsters but also typical wesnoth rodents or birds). The elves could have very particular pets half-animal and half-faerie or tree for example. Maybe you could make an Era with all those animals and all your scientific explanations and quotes. You could even create a whole wesnoth fashion Zoologist Academy which studies all the lifeforms of wesnoth.
I doubt hordes of people would pay attention (most prefer a good epic fight against an army of undead) but some people including me might love it.

I am already working on the polishing of my own campaign on the moment and have other matters to deal with but if you were to recreate an add-on with a whole fauna with different regions, a whole new theory about the links between serpentine creatures or woses and a lot of interesting creatures like (just an idea) giant squirrels who thanks to a safe environment and much food in the elven forest (Dunno which one but probably Wesmere, Lintanir or Aethenwood) have grown to huge sizes ; I would definitely try it out and maybe add it to some campaign where for example a mad scientist risks his life to discover new species.
User avatar
Twilight_Alchemist
Posts: 12
Joined: September 5th, 2012, 3:42 am

Re: On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

Post by Twilight_Alchemist »

jaeslin wrote: May 12th, 2020, 9:39 am Sounds like an interesting idea however I don't think you will get it in mainline (they tend not to add much even if it is of great quality to maintain clear standards for novice players and have a simple lore which doesn't contradict itself). I don't know how exactly you plan to add evolution in Wesnoth (I suppose enhancing the description of most monsters/animals and adding categories).
I wasn't planning on getting this mainlined in the slightest. I just thought that it would be interesting to apply evolution to Wesnothian creatures. Yeah, it would be relegated to the encyclopedia entirely.
jaeslin wrote: May 12th, 2020, 9:39 amI think your scientific approach is interesting but it should not get too academic or it will get too far from mainline Wesnoth (In a world where magic is quite common too much rational thinking is a bit awkward). Maybe creating a Wesnothian equivalent language for evolution and species classification (I don't think there is one) would be the solution. You could recreate entire species, explaining their links, their origin, rival theories about their nature and add some new creatures to make it more interesting.
I totally agree a more complex fauna would be great (not just epic dragons or monsters but also typical wesnoth rodents or birds). The elves could have very particular pets half-animal and half-faerie or tree for example. Maybe you could make an Era with all those animals and all your scientific explanations and quotes. You could even create a whole wesnoth fashion Zoologist Academy which studies all the lifeforms of wesnoth.
I doubt hordes of people would pay attention (most prefer a good epic fight against an army of undead) but some people including me might love it.
Yeah, this would be a combined attempt to reconcile magic and science in Wesnoth since magic, specifically the magic academies in Wesnoth, seems to be both secular and religious in nature. I'd imagine that the Great Academy of Alduin would evolve similar to real medieval monasteries evolved into modern Universities and seats of science. I think that the study of magic would eventually lead to a study of natural life, leading to mages that emphasize their studies on natural life (Think Astronomer, Botanist, and Chemist. Of course using more archaic terms like Astrologist, Herbalist, and Alchemist). Besides, Magic in wesnoth always seemed more academic to me than just a mystical thing, with magical philosophy being mentioned in DiD. I think the closest language is the Welsh based language that the names of humans are based on. Right now it'd only be mainlined stuff until I figured out what else to add. Probably the creatures from the Archaic Era. This is more of a writing project rather than an add-on. If it were to be added as an add-on, it would probably be more along the lines of bits of dialogue or custom units in a campaign. Thinking about it, I'm sure that the Dunefolk would probably also have fairly extensive collections of knowledge about this due to their aversion to Magic and having units like the Burner, Herbalist, and Alchemist which would leave the Dunefolk as having some forms of proto-science.
jaeslin wrote: May 12th, 2020, 9:39 amI am already working on the polishing of my own campaign on the moment and have other matters to deal with but if you were to recreate an add-on with a whole fauna with different regions, a whole new theory about the links between serpentine creatures or woses and a lot of interesting creatures like (just an idea) giant squirrels who thanks to a safe environment and much food in the elven forest (Dunno which one but probably Wesmere, Lintanir or Aethenwood) have grown to huge sizes ; I would definitely try it out and maybe add it to some campaign where for example a mad scientist risks his life to discover new species.
Serpentine creatures fit under reptiles and Woses are stated to be completely magical creatures. I don't think you really need a mad scientist. A regular mage would work equally well. Most likely during the time of Under the Burning Suns. I think the Giant Squirrels would be more like tailed Capybaras than anything else. And you are correct that fauna for each different region is important, so here's a rough idea of the predator creators of Irdya.

Predator Animals across Irdya:
Wolves - Wolves seem to exist across the world of Irdya and in every climate. From the frozen north to the burning south. From the Green Isle to the Great Continent. The common wolves is divided into three species. Wolf (Ulv monydd), Great Wolf (Ulv goedwyg), and Direwolf (Ulv enfawr). The genus name for wolf is derived from the Dwarvish word for wolf, "ulf" meaning "wolf". Seen in titles like Ulfserker.

Spiders - Spiders are "Arthopods" that live mostly in caves. They prey on insects, small mammals, and occasionally, humanoids. There are two species of spiders. The Giant Spiders (Corynnod knalga) and Cave Spiders (Corynnod hulejegere). Giant Spiders tend to be the larger of the two and will hunt Dwarves alongside their normal prey. Cave Spiders tend to be smaller in size and will usually hunt the Giant Ants that dwell in the caves under the Great Continent. The genus name is the Wesnothian word for the creature and the species names are Dwarvish in origin. Knalga being the location where Giant Spiders are usually found and "hulejegere" meaning Cave Hunters.

Birds - This is a more broad classification as most birds in Wesnoth are birds of Prey, feeding on things like fish, rodents, and the very occasional humanoid. Falcons (Tayir alsaqr), Roc (Tayir ruk), and Gryphons (Gryphon bevingededyr). Falcons and Rocs are located only in the Great Southern Desert where they are common among the Dunefolk, who will use falcons as attack their enemies, similar to how necromancers use bats. The genus name Tayir is the Dunefolk word for Bird, while the genus name Gryphon is the Wesnothian name for the creature. The species name alsaqr and ruk are direct translations of the Dunefolk word for the same creatures. The species name "bevinededyr" originates from the Dwarvish name for the creature and it translates to "Winged Beast".

Possibly Extinct Predator Animals:
Bears - Bears were once known in the northern parts of the Great Continent, but possibly due to the influence of humans and other sapient species, bears have not been seen on the Great Continent since the time of Haldric's arrival. They are mostly known from Dwarvish writings, art, and titles. The only known specimen of bear is a collection of bones that are housed in the Great Academy of Alduin. This species is only called Bear (Beir beir) with its genus name being derived from the Dwarvish word for bear, "ber" meaning "bear". Seen in titles like Berserker.

Dragons and Serpents - Fire Dragons (Draig inferno) are incredible rare creatures on Irdya. They mostly keep to themselves deep in caves, only coming out to feed. There is one known case of fighting a Fire Dragon and that was done by Haldric I in 1 BW whole killed the dragon. Some remnants from the creature piece together the creature's large size. It possibly feeds on any form of meat that it can, including humanoids like humans, elves, and dwarves. However, they tend to form pacts with Drakes and Saurians, not feeding on them for unknown reasons. The genus/species name is the Wesnothian words for Inferno Dragon.
Sea Serpents (Sarff môrdwfn) are large creatures that inhabit the oceans of Irdya. They prey on fish and Merfolk. The depths they live at means that they are seldom seen by humanoid races. Most knowledge about them comes from Merfolk sources. The scientific name for the creature is derived from the Old Wesnothian words for Deep Sea Serpent.
Water Serpents are hotly debated as where they fit in the Tree of Life. Some have said that they are closer related to the Sea Serpents (Sarff afon) or are closer in relation to Nagas, being primordial cousins. (Phaṇin afon). This has caused a small division in the academic community in Alduin and elsewhere. The majority say that they are closer related to the Naga, due to a similar scale pattern and skull shape. This is countered by some magi who claim that the skeletal body of the Water Serpent makes it have a closer relation to the Water Serpents. When asking Naga themselves, they claim direct relation to the water serpents.
Wyvern (Wyvern tanin) are large creatures that exist solely in the Great Southern Desert of Irdya. Known to the Dunefolk, who rarely are able to tame and use them as mounts in times of war. They seem closely related to the Fire Dragons, sharing a non-fire breathing common ancestor. Their scientific name originates from the Dunefolk words for the creature "Winged two-footed dragon".

Extinct Predator Animals:
"Chocobone" - The "Chocobone", as it is commonly called, is only known from their bones being raised from the dead by necromancers who use them as mounts for their skeletal warriors. While some fossilized remains have been pulled for study, few have survived the battlefield. From this we can gather that the "Chocobone" was a predator of prehistoric life on the Great Continent. Possibly hunting other animals like the Giant Rat or a similar species, possibly even precursors to elves and dwarves. Due to this, their genus/species name is derived from the Wesnoth words, "Aderynanferth helywrdynal" or "Giant Bird human hunters".
Co-creator of Ice Age Fun. Former username is King_Link (IAF credits). Current Project is Ice Age Fun Redux (to be announced)
User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 2158
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

Post by Celtic_Minstrel »

jaeslin wrote: May 12th, 2020, 9:39 am I think your scientific approach is interesting but it should not get too academic or it will get too far from mainline Wesnoth (In a world where magic is quite common too much rational thinking is a bit awkward).
I strongly disagree. Magic and science are not opposites - a scientific approach can be applied to magic as easily as to physics and biology.
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm Wolves - Wolves seem to exist across the world of Irdya and in every climate. From the frozen north to the burning south.
I dunno about this, wolves are a very northern species so I wouldn't expect to see them in the tropical southern regions (though there could be other canines that may resemble wolves). Are they actually used that way in mainline campaigns? (Under the Burning Subs doesn't count, of course; it's a completely separate time period so all sorts of things would be completely different.)
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm There are two species of spiders.
I'm sure regular-sized spiders also exist in Irdya. ;)
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm Falcons and Rocs are located only in the Great Southern Desert where they are common among the Dunefolk, who will use falcons as attack their enemies, similar to how necromancers use bats.
I don't think this fits. For the rocs, I imagine them to be the sort of bird that nests near a mountain peak, so while they may descend to the desert fringes for hunting, I think they'd spend most of their lives in the mountains. As for falcons, I don't think they're exclusive to the Dunefolk. There's no supporting evidence for it in mainline campaigns, true, but I would expect falcons to be in use in Wesnoth for hunting. Use of falcons in war might be unique to the Dunefolk, mind you.

Side note: I would not classify the gryphon as a bird or a mammal; I'd probably make a whole new category for it. Potentially it could be a distant relative of the wyvern, as both seem to be six-limbed creatures if I recall correctly?
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm Bears - Bears were once known in the northern parts of the Great Continent, but possibly due to the influence of humans and other sapient species, bears have not been seen on the Great Continent since the time of Haldric's arrival. They are mostly known from Dwarvish writings, art, and titles. The only known specimen of bear is a collection of bones that are housed in the Great Academy of Alduin. This species is only called Bear (Beir beir) with its genus name being derived from the Dwarvish word for bear, "ber" meaning "bear". Seen in titles like Berserker.
Why are bears possibly extinct?
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm Dragons and Serpents - Fire Dragons (Draig inferno) are incredible rare creatures on Irdya. They mostly keep to themselves deep in caves, only coming out to feed.
I'm not sure if dragons as cave-dwellers fits well. It could be that they just fly off into the sunset and settle down in a place with no people. Or they could be functionally extinct. There is one theory that says they're actually the same species as the drakes, too.
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm However, they tend to form pacts with Drakes and Saurians, not feeding on them for unknown reasons.
I would suggest that if they form pacts, it's with drakes only, not Saurians.
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm Their scientific name originates from the Dunefolk words for the creature "Winged two-footed dragon".
Two-footed? I thought the sprites implied four legs, but was I wrong on that?
Twilight_Alchemist wrote: May 14th, 2020, 8:19 pm "Chocobone" - The "Chocobone", as it is commonly called,
Note that "Chocobone" refers to the skeletal undead form; the base animal is probably "Chocobo" (I'm pretty sure this is a Final Fantasy reference or something).

I would say they're a flightless bird, similar to the ostrich, emu, or South American terror bird (the latter being extinct).
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Former maintainer of Steelhive.
User avatar
Iris
Site Administrator
Posts: 6796
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: On the Origin of Monsters by Means of Natural Selection

Post by Iris »

Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
Post Reply