Need Multiplayer Strategy (hexcake, loyalists, vs elves)

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

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Yogibear
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Post by Yogibear »

unsung wrote:
Yogi Bear wrote: 2.
If your opponent buys mostly cheap units (that is fighters) a horsemen is not a good idea.
What? A horseman can take a figter in one turn if he hits.

If they are in the forest, he isn't usefull, but on the plains, it is very usefull.
There is a couple of reasons not to do this:

Economy:
For the price of three horsemen you get five elvish fighters. In my eyes that more than makes up the more damage a horsemen can deal, even if he is going to attack first because of his better movement.

Terrain:
Going for melee units on good terrain (50% defense or more) with horsemen is suicide as you said yourself.

Probablity:
Even if your opponent is careless enough to put his fighters on grassland they still have 40% defense there. To kill them in one turn, a horsemen has to get both his hits in with 60% chance to hit. The probablity for this is 0.6*0.6 = 0.36. So the horsemen will kill the fighter in one turn only 1 out of 3 times. The other two tries are going to fail (statistically of course). So what happens if he goes charging the fighter at day (otherwise he is not able to kill him) and the fighter does not die? It strikes back, dealing 6-4, that makes a potential of 48 damage (with charge). If he is lucky enough to survive that, he will most likely be killed the very next turn before he is able to retreat.

So normally, no good idea to use horsemen against fighters. Still a horsemen is a mighty unit. If you already have an economic advantage and you can afford to buy one, than this might be a valuable option. And nobody says that you have to always attack fresh units. As a finishing unit a horsemen is great, since he has a good chance not to receive any damage even if the other unit has 15 HP left. And there might be some circumstances where you have to kill an enemy unit at all cost. A horsemen is the right answer then. But these are very special cases, in general it is not a good idea.
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Tomsik
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Post by Tomsik »

Yogi Bear wrote:6-4, that makes a potential of 48 damage (with charge).
Horses have 20% resistance agnist blade!
Yogibear
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Post by Yogibear »

Oops, sorry, i missed that one :x . Still it is a lot of damage.
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Post by Jkun »

I generally tear Drakes apart. Archers, spearmen, horsemen? I mean c'mon. Elves are a different matter entirely. They seem to lack any obvious exploitable disadvantage. The key is their (generally) frighteningly low HP.

Also, concerning cavalrymen: I actually like them. They're much more 'reliable' units than horsemen, since they lack Charge. Pretty situational, though. I usually grab Fencers when I want scouts.
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Post by Noy »

Here's an offer. Come on to the server and find me if I'm on (same user name as on the forum). If you're well mannered and willing to learn, I'll teach you some basics ect. Its a lot easier than if I have to type out a whole guide which may not be very easy to understand either.
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

With elves, as others have said, there is no great weakness. Mages are expensive and have few hitpoints, but you will need at least one or two for critical moments.

Elves are more concerned about terrain than Loyalists, so you can use this to your advantage. Use fencers to restrict their movement. Your fencers have 60% defense on grassland, and don't even need to attack: they can just skirmish into place, allowing wounded units to retreat (such as your arrow-filled heavy infantryman). Even without ZoC blocking, the elves will be reluctant to chase your wounded units if it forces them onto bad terrain.

Fighting drakes is a no-brainer with Loyalists: piercing, piercing, piercing. Let burners attack your archers, and then retaliate with spearmen. Let clashers attack your spearmen, and then retaliate with archers. The drakes have enormous movement so you will have to design your formation very carefully to prevent them from circling around you. Keep a horseman or two around in the back lines to charge in for kills. If there are Saurian skirmishers, try to limit their ability to gang-up on critical points.
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Shadowdweller
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Post by Shadowdweller »

Use fencers to restrict their movement. Your fencers have 60% defense on grassland, and don't even need to attack: they can just skirmish into place, allowing wounded units to retreat (such as your arrow-filled heavy infantryman).
For all you brilliant tacticians who are utterly incapable of doing math: No, 60% defense on grasslands does NOT mean a damn thing by itself. Let's compare three loyalist units:

Heavy Infantry- Only 30% defense on grasslands, but 30%-50% resistance to physical attacks (as in those from elvish warriors/archers)

Spearman- 40% defense on grasslands, and 0% resistance to physical attacks

Fencer- 60% on grasslands, and 20-30% VULNERABILITY to physical attacks

Guess who's taking the most damage on average from those elves while on grassland? Yes, that's right the FENCER. Guess who has the least number of hps to top it off?

(PS: All OTHER points brought up in the above post ARE both valid and noteworthy)
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Shadowdweller wrote:Guess who's taking the most damage on average from those elves while on grassland? Yes, that's right the FENCER.
You haven't done your math right. It's the spearman.

60% defense means you take 67% as much damage as a 40% defense unit, but even 30% weakness to Blade only makes you take 30% more damage. Multiply them together, and you get 87% - quite a bit less than 100%
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Post by Shadowdweller »

Elvish Pillager wrote:60% defense means you take 67% as much damage as a 40% defense unit, but even 30% weakness to Blade only makes you take 30% more damage. Multiply them together, and you get 87% - quite a bit less than 100%
Oops, my bad. You are correct.

However, assuming full health (or even equal percentages of health, or even equal HP-affecting modifiers), the Fencer still dies faster from both Elvish Fighter and Archer attacks.

Fencer: 28 HP / ((Rounded(5 damage * either 1.2 or 1.3) * 4 hits) * .4 chance to hit)
= 2.92 attacks to kill on average

Spearman: 36 HP / ((5 damage * 4 hits) * .6 chance to hit)
= 3.0 attacks to kill on average
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Shadowdweller wrote:(or even equal percentages of health, or even equal HP-affecting modifiers)
Technically no. If both are Strong, Resilient (1.0 effects) then they have 37 and 45 HP, the percentage difference of which is different than that of the original fencer and spearman. Now they take 3.85 vs. 3.75 attacks to kill, and the Fencer is actually tougher.

But in general, you're right, and the Fencer certainly is nowhere close to invincible.
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Post by player »

Yogi Bear wrote: Not because loyalists are weak at night (elves are too) but because you play on 30% XP..

Elves are NEUTRAL,,,,not affected by time of the day,,(':mrgreen:')
-jew
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

The fencer only has to survive one turn. The spearman can be blocked to prevent him from retreating.

Attacking the fencer with a blade may exploit his greatest weakness, but he'll also get in some nice counterattacks before he dies... especially since he is preventing the elves from getting to their favored terrain.
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn »

unsung wrote:loaylists vs elves- I'd focus on engaing in meele- especiall ywith horsemen. and look for a chance to kill his leader by slippin gone thorugh his lines- people leave gaps often.


I can't think o fmuch else righ tnow.
All too true.

My advice--give up, elves rock! :wink:

*IIRC, hexcake has a few places to really bottle up enemy movement, put fencers there, as really good defence, and at 30% xp they level up easily.

*Use Shook troopers, they are good against most elven units, but be ready to kill mages quickly.

*Against elfish fighters/melee units in woods--if ever in that situation, use mages--they have 70% chance to hit--just make sure to kill the units, as mages die easily.

*Don't underestimate spearmen, then are inexpensive, and level up into good units.

*try to kill mages, shamans, and units with low xp to level--on 30% they are really annoying

*attack at day, because loyalista are of lawful alignment and suffer at night, benefit at day. Luckily some of the elven units--the human ones suffer too, meaning some players will back off with the mages at night

hope this helps
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unsung
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Post by unsung »

I remebered something!
Level up your spearmen to pikemen when facing anything but woses (if he refuses to use meele units, throw in a javlineer to make people go insane.)
Why?
bow=pierce.
Pikeman=20% resist pierce+10-3 meele+firststrike=dead archers.

Plus, I maintain that halberdiers own elves in meele: My leader (halberdier) once killed four elvish heroes on castle terrain in one turn (mp, enemy was attacking me)
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

unsung wrote:I remebered something!
Level up your spearmen to pikemen when facing anything but woses (if he refuses to use meele units, throw in a javlineer to make people go insane.)
Good advice, I didn't think of that. Yeah, resistance to piercing damage is a great asset against elven units.
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