Trolls versus Grunts

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Kamamura
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Trolls versus Grunts

Post by Kamamura »

I am aware that this has been disussed, but overall, trolls seem much better than grunts to me. Level 2 and 3 have decent impact attack (while grunt only has ordinary blade), but most importantly, they regenerate. This allows a group of trolls to rotate and hold a battle line really, really long time. Also, trolls are somewhat resistant to the blade and pierce (most common attacks), while grunts have resistancese only versus holy (quite useless).

Therefore, I recruit grunts only very rarely. What's your thoughts on the subject?
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appleide
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Post by appleide »

Grunts have a much higher attack value.
basically a level 1 grunt has as much overall attack than the troll. (9-2vs 11-2 IIRC), while the level 2 grunts attacks= a level 3 trolls. This more than makes up for the grunts lack of regeneration.

Plus grunts have movement 5, trolls have movement 4
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Tomsik
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Post by Tomsik »

grunts have better movetype too, trolls are easy to hit(exept on mountians)

P.S.: appleide: Troll have 7-2 and grunt 9-2
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Post by Oreb »

Trolls are way better anyway especially in the caves, they are very powerful, their only disadvantage is the no range attack
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Post by Logan »

Grunts look better.
Otherwise you have to remember that trolls are shock troops, while grunts are more flexible.
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Post by dalk »

The main advantage of the grunt is that it defends well on villages and has high hp, so it can probably hold it during the day.

The trolls arent that good actually, since they are too slow and dont defend good.

The only times i prefer trolls over grunts are

-you have so much gold you can set up a defense line along the whole map, trolls are excellent in this position so they cant be outnumbered and will almost always survive 2 attacks
-you are playing against dwarves or undead
-you are playing on a very small map so their low movement isnt a problem
-you are playing on a map full of mountains and hills
- to hold a few mountains on strategic positions(like in charge)

but remember

-trolls are useless against drakes
-they dont belong in the open fields where they can be surrounded
-against elves they arent very good either, they get killed by their woses and ranged attacks quickly
-against loyalists never recruit them in the first turns on a normal map because they are very bad against horses
-against other orcs they arent that usefull either, mostly grunts and wolf riders to hold the villages and eventually you'll win by better income
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

dalk wrote:The main advantage of the grunt is that it defends well on villages and has high hp, so it can probably hold it during the day.

The trolls arent that good actually, since they are too slow and dont defend good.

The only times i prefer trolls over grunts are

-you have so much gold you can set up a defense line along the whole map, trolls are excellent in this position so they cant be outnumbered and will almost always survive 2 attacks
-you are playing against dwarves or undead
-you are playing on a very small map so their low movement isnt a problem
-you are playing on a map full of mountains and hills
- to hold a few mountains on strategic positions(like in charge)

but remember

-trolls are useless against drakes
-they dont belong in the open fields where they can be surrounded
-against elves they arent very good either, they get killed by their woses and ranged attacks quickly
-against loyalists never recruit them in the first turns on a normal map because they are very bad against horses
-against other orcs they arent that usefull either, mostly grunts and wolf riders to hold the villages and eventually you'll win by better income
I think that was perfectly said. Right on. :D
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

I have a very simple view of Troll Whelps:

"They only have 4 moves, so don't recruit them except in situations in which they are extremely advantageous in other ways."
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Post by Doc Paterson »

Elvish Pillager wrote:I have a very simple view of Troll Whelps:

"They only have 4 moves, so don't recruit them except in situations in which they are extremely advantageous in other ways."
Is that a Lao Tzu quote? :P
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Post by Logan »

Probably not.
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Post by Shadowdweller »

-trolls are useless against drakes
-they dont belong in the open fields where they can be surrounded
-against elves they arent very good either, they get killed by their woses and ranged attacks quickly
-against loyalists never recruit them in the first turns on a normal map because they are very bad against horses
-against other orcs they arent that usefull either, mostly grunts and wolf riders to hold the villages and eventually you'll win by better income
Hmm. I don't know that I agree with all that. Personally, I think trolls are great defensive units because of their high HPs, resistances, and regeneration. Sometimes being able to soak up damage and keep on going is really what you need. I certainly wouldn't use them extensively in offensives, however (7-2 melee only makes for a pretty low damage output).

Of course, when we're talking sheer offensive power (i.e. damage output), the single most potent Northerner unit for the cost is actually the Goblin Spearman :twisted:
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Post by Dave »

I think that trolls and grunts each have their uses and place, neither is better than the other in all situations.

Which is exactly the way it should be. :)
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Croc Paterson
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Post by Croc Paterson »

Shadowdweller wrote: Of course, when we're talking sheer offensive power (i.e. damage output), the single most potent Northerner unit for the cost is actually the Goblin Spearman :twisted:
The gold to damage ratio of the spearman is the same as that of the grunt (18 to 12 and 12 to 8 ). Of course though, you'll not get as much damage for your gold if you're recruiting only spearmen, because their HP is less than half of the grunt's.
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Shadowdweller
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Post by Shadowdweller »

Croc Paterson wrote: The gold to damage ratio of the spearman is the same as that of the grunt (18 to 12 and 12 to 8 ). Of course though, you'll not get as much damage for your gold if you're recruiting only spearmen, because their HP is less than half of the grunt's.
Don't forget that 50% chance of getting a strong unit, which increases the Spearman's damage more than that of the grunt (even with night/day roundings). Calculating this in yields:

potential (attacking) damage output of spearmen is 20.25 for every 12 gold

potential (attacking) damage of Grunts is 19.0 for 12 gold.

My point in including this really is that things are more complicated than simple attack comparisons. Yes, goblin spearmen have fewer hit points and also suffer one and a half retaliations (read 50% more damage taken) for every grunt (based on price-ratio). And possess other weaknesses that need not be mentioned.
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