New AI

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply

If someone comes up with a new AI, what should its be able to do?

Not use information about shrouded/foggy hexes.
4
8%
Know about more/all abilities.
15
31%
Beat the current AI.
17
35%
Other/Combination of the above.
11
23%
You'll never be able to do it, because you're too young/otherwise incapable.
1
2%
 
Total votes: 48

ryn
Posts: 196
Joined: August 23rd, 2004, 4:01 am
Location: Israel

New AI

Post by ryn »

Because I am implementing a Wesnoth AI (to be done before the summer ends :P) I want some feedback about what players would enjoy most.
2B |! 2B = 3F
scott
Posts: 5243
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: San Pedro, CA

Post by scott »

Everything! But I think abilities are the most important one. Also it should know how to use healing effectively.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

It not knowing about shrouded/fogged hexes is the most important to me, because it would really help a lot with certain scenarios I'm designing/have designed. Knowing about more abilities is a close second.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Pythagoras
Posts: 72
Joined: February 17th, 2005, 12:53 pm

Post by Pythagoras »

turin wrote:It not knowing about shrouded/fogged hexes is the most important to me, because it would really help a lot with certain scenarios I'm designing/have designed. Knowing about more abilities is a close second.
This would be a serious advance in AI. I can't think of any games with "fog of war"s that has an AI that can get by without "cheating" in this way.
MadMax
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 6th, 2004, 3:29 pm
Location: Weldyn, Wesnoth

Post by MadMax »

I actually think the best advance in AI would be to have the game adapt to your style as you play. This adaptation should, however, not carry over between scenarios. That, and there should be a small random factor, so that the AI is not as predictable.

Being able to fare well without knowing what's under fog or shroud would be nice too, and so would knowledge of abilities.
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8137
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Actually, in my opinion, what we need is an AI that understands that ultimately, the goal is to kill the enemy leader.

The most important bit would be worshipping chance to kill the enemy leader.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Dave
Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by Dave »

MadMax wrote:I actually think the best advance in AI would be to have the game adapt to your style as you play.
This advance can be distinguished from ryn's suggestions in that it's probably infeasible to actually implement.
MadMax wrote: That, and there should be a small random factor, so that the AI is not as predictable.
There already is a small random factor in the current AI. Give it the same situation and it will not always do the same thing.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
szopen
Posts: 631
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Post by szopen »

It would be nice if it could deal with static, long-range units, like watch-towers as artillery

(ducks and runs)
User avatar
Gafgarion
Posts: 607
Joined: February 26th, 2004, 10:48 pm

Post by Gafgarion »

szopen wrote:It would be nice if it could deal with static, long-range units, like watch-towers as artillery

(ducks and runs)
Yes, this would be an excellent feature for an AI in a Wesnoth Fork.
-Gafgarion
Elvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
ryn
Posts: 196
Joined: August 23rd, 2004, 4:01 am
Location: Israel

Post by ryn »

yes, it would, but I want to end up with something usable by the majority of players, so I'll concentrate on strength of play/proper use of abilities/good use of fog and shroud, and only then implement miscellaneous requests which don't won't help in multiplayer. My current list of priorities:
1. get something simple and working that will beat the sample_ai
2. teach it about more common abilities (poison, healing, cure) and improve playing strength by other means
3. (by this point it should beat the default AI, I hope) have an option to make it not use knowlege about fog/shroud
4. implement other requests.

Of course, this will take the majority of the summer and is not set in stone :)
If, for example, some scenario designer asks me for something, I may choose to implement it early. Making the AI not use info about foggy/shrouded hexes it shouldn't know is, for example, on the list because of Turin's post.
2B |! 2B = 3F
kangounator
Posts: 98
Joined: May 7th, 2005, 2:49 pm
Location: France, Toulouse (next to)

Post by kangounator »

it will be great if in a same game the IA "learn" : if it was losing ( for strategy reasons ) it don't make the same mistake in this game.
"Draw me a sheep." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"And i sorry for my english." - tomsik
ryn
Posts: 196
Joined: August 23rd, 2004, 4:01 am
Location: Israel

Post by ryn »

That's one thing that actually can be done, kangounator, but not until it can actually do what I wanted it to do in the first place.
edit: look up TD(lambda) if interested. This algorithm is applicable because my ideas are based on an evaluation function.
2B |! 2B = 3F
Breeblebox
Posts: 209
Joined: October 27th, 2004, 8:24 am
Location: New Zealand

Post by Breeblebox »

I think the abilities are important. Having an allied archer range attack an assassin because it does more damage is just plain frustrating. I've seen whole groups of elves (The first scenario in HTTT for instance) essentially take themselves out of a fight by trying to shoot an assassin.

Poisoned.. poisoned.. poisoned.. poisoned.. d'oh!
Bear, as in Fozzy,Bare, as in Arms,Beer, as in Free.
Distro | Browser
Post Reply