Help on Knalgans versus Undead (Ghost-Heavy)

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anakayub
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Help on Knalgans versus Undead (Ghost-Heavy)

Post by anakayub »

I need help regarding my play versus Undead. I'm not used to this match-up.

What I noted was recruiting thieves after knowing the matchup was a mistake. Stupidly losing that expensive griffon was another.

Questions:
1) How to counter the heavy numbers of ghosts? Should I recruit more thunderers? Should I have recruited more ulfserkers?
2) How to compensate for my low mobility? I couldnt attack until late day. Should I have simply baited his units to come and counter after that? I think I was overaggressive.

Comments are greatly appreciated.
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JW
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Post by JW »

Without watching the replay, I can tell you that a good way to counter too many Ghosts with Knalgans is to recruit a couple Poachers. They're cheap, they deal ok ranged damage, and are Chaotic so they will deal damage when you need it most. Also, they have more mp than dwarfs and better defense in some odd terrains, namely forest and swamp. Recruiting a couple of those is a good investment to counter ghosts, but it's generally not a good idea to recruit more than 1 or 2 if he isn't using them.
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Post by Velensk »

If it is not night and you have weakened the ghost with pouchers, then you can generaly finish with an ulfserker, which are good things to keep around. Thuderers can be a good investment against everything in the undead army except skelotons, however shooting at ghosts is chancy.
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Post by Elvish Scientist »

The problem with ghosts is their drain ability, so you have to attack with ranged, with a high defense melee unit. Thunderers are useful, but should be kept on mountains/hills, which limits their use. Poachers are a nice complement. Both units have as disadvantage that they deal pierce damage, which is the least effective against ghosts and many other undead.
I have good experience with thiefs. When backstabbing, the deal nice damage to a (low HP) ghost. They are also very nice against dark adepts.
A ulf to finish is nice, but beware of his next turn.
When there are few mountains / hills, I recruit a significant number of thiefs.
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JW
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Post by JW »

Elvish Scientist wrote:I have good experience with thiefs. When backstabbing, the deal nice damage to a (low HP) ghost. They are also very nice against dark adepts.
A ulf to finish is nice, but beware of his next turn.
When there are few mountains / hills, I recruit a significant number of thiefs.
You really shouldn't recruit thieves against Undead unless they mass Adepts. They are really totally useless against almost all undead. For 1 more gold you can get a Poacher, which is useful against a wider variety of undead.
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Post by Velensk »

Theives do decently against adepts/ghosts, however get frozen solid by adepts/ and chopped up by skelotons.
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krotop
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Post by krotop »

Mmh... You're likely to face ghosts and adepts, as well as some bats maybe. Having a thief is not such a bad idea since he's useful against any of these (especially now that the thief resists 20% against ghost's melee).

To give numbers, a strong thief does 8-3 with 50% chance to hit to a ghost when backstabbing at night, and receives 4-3 with 40% chance to hit. Considering that you pay it 7 gold less, it worths the try if you have poked a 3-4 on the ghost with a poacher just before. Though, if you can't get an occasion to backstab, the thief will remain nearly useless, obviously, or used for village stealing, decoy, jolly jester or whatsoever.

EDIT : Sorry for the disinformation, an strong thief does 6-3, which is still effective. I made confusion with the lvl2 thief who does 8-3 at night.
Last edited by krotop on February 11th, 2008, 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by IB »

I can't believe none of you have said footpads.
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krotop
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Post by krotop »

Because the 1st question was about mass ghosts. But true that footpads are nice against the skeletons, for ZoC, and for every use you can have of a good mobility in general.
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Post by Sly »

krotop wrote:Because the 1st question was about mass ghosts. But true that footpads are nice against the skeletons, for ZoC, and for every use you can have of a good mobility in general.
Footpads aren't bad evrsus mass ghost : OK they'll deal less ranged damages but have enough defence that ghost won't regain much HP attacking them with melee
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