A study on Charge

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PrinceRepulsive
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A study on Charge

Post by PrinceRepulsive »

Warning! I am no expert, and although I'm not a noob either, take all I say with a grain of salt! With that said, I'm open to suggestions and corrections. I know that many people are far better than I, and I would be happy to hear advice from them.

Purpose of guide: To help young Wesnothans in their learning of this map

A few months ago, I returned to Wesnoth, and decided to learn all races and common 1v1 maps. So I decided to start with random on Charge, because it seemed like the most simple and easy map. The most simple, relatively, it probably is, although Blitz is close. Easy it is NOT. There are nuances and tricks that must be learned in order to master this map, which (thankfully for player 2) is not even symmetrical. I will go over some general considerations and go into the tactics and strategies concerning both players.

First of all, the basic idea is quite simple. Both sides grab their villages as quickly as possible. Then player one launches an attack on the left or right side. If he can inflict enough damage, he will win. But if player two can defend successfully and launch a counterattack, he will win. Again, these are GENERALIZATIONS. Always play the game, not the guide.

}Edit{ As Doc_Paterson has kindly pointed out, whoever starts the attack depends on time of day more than anything else. As such, I will be adding two parts below: Defense for player 1 and vicious assault for player two.


Player 1

Part 1: Villages
The Village getting stage early on is a crucial stage. Getting ALL the villages in the north is CRITICAL to the game. If you do not, your life will be short and your death painful. I usually prefer to send a water unit or saurian through the swamp to that village. If you're Knalgans, you won't have a problem sending a unit over the mountains near that village, and if you're UD, I'd recommend a bat. Although I'm not too sure about the bat :?.
The far left swamp village is best gotten with a fast non-scout. But if you're getting a scout anyways, use that.
The one on the far right island counts as yours
Just use your brain with the others.

Part 2: Vicious assault
The next part is to decide where you will attack and how. On the right, supported by a Merman? On the left, taking advantage of that juicy terrain? What? It all depends on the game. Be flexible enough that if you see a chance on either side, you can go for it. I prefer going on the right whenever possible, because the river cuts through the battlefield on the left. Unless you're sure you can take and hold the village on the lower left island QUICKLY, avoid fighting in the river. Note that although you CAN send units through the path in the bottom-left island's mountains, doing so is only good when you can guarantee a successful attack. Also, if you attack on the left, do yourself a favor and don't send reinforcements down the center. Your army will be destroyed in detail. Happened to me :oops:
Don't attack in the center, it never works. Your units have to cross a river AND fight in the plain against good terrain, while his only have to take up defensive positions in the hills and woods.

Part 3: Defense
There will be times when you cannot just go on the attack. Perhaps you're the Knalgan Alliance vs the Drakes. Maybe the time of day is wrong. But in any case, you must know how to defend. Which is always lots of trouble. Attacking you down the center is not smart, just attacking him down the center. But keep a unit watching the central passes. Some sneaky players (like me :D) are more than willing to strike hard and fast down the center if they discover that it's unprotected.
The left side is usually where my opponents strike. This is because this is the easiest spot for them to attack, and the hardest for you to defend. Suffice to say, letting them take the village is a no-no, because taking it back, his army vs yours, will be a huge pain in the neck. Also, I usually avoid taking the terrain at the bottom of the chain of mountains when I'm on the defense, because that provides too juicy a target for your opponent to pass up. Instead, place your defense in a line from the Mountain and hill to the left of the village through the village to the hills on the right of the village.
If he attacks on the right, I recommend at least one water unit (if you have them) and using the good terrain around the village. If needs be, you can also occupy the hills and forest just across the river on his island.


Player 2:

Part 1: Villages
:shock: No offense, but need I go over this? All your villages can be gotten with pure ground forces, and are in plain view. Okay, so the lower left swamp one may need a water unit (MAYBE). Just remember to get ALL your villages quickly.

Part 2: Defense
This is quite simple. Grab the good terrain, watch his troops and move yours accordingly. DO NOT LET HIM TAKE YOUR LEFT ISLAND OR ANY VILLAGES!!! If he can use either of these as a fortress during his wrong time of day, he'll probably win. Instead, strand him on rivers and plains, and cycle out wounded and poisoned units.

Part 3: Counter-attack
Okay, so you've beat him back, and his wounded troops are running at a time of day advantageous for you. Pursue him! Your goal is to take a village from him and to hold it when the time of day turns. When it turns again, beat him up. Repeat until victory. But watch out for sneaky counterattacks and assassination attempts. In other words, keep one or two units watching his paths of attack.

Part 4: Vicious Assault
Sometimes you don't need to defend. Your opponent is timid. You're Northerners with the time of day favorable for you. No matter what reason, you're on the attack. Defending is harder for your opponent than it would have been for you. Remember that information is the key to victory. So keep an eye on his defenses. If you find out that his left side is weak, go for it! Remember that your goal is to take either his that's close to you on the left, or to take the one on the far right middle island. This is because they are the farthest from his keep, and as such, the farthest from his reinforcements and leader. So should he choose to bring his leader out to fight your attackers, it's two turns to get there and two turns to get back. That's a lot of time without reinforcements. Then hold whichever one you've taken. A water unit (if you can get one) is probably a good idea in either case, and remember to take terrain he abandons or terrain that his units died on.



Hope this helps!


EDIT: Charge has been REMOVED from the development version of the game and replaced with "The freedlands." I may or may not make a guide to that.
Last edited by PrinceRepulsive on October 16th, 2007, 11:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

Too much for me to comment on right now, but I will say this: Map strategy guides are a great idea. If you're not entirely confident in your advice (you seem a bit unsure, though I think you said more good things than bad things, bearing in mind the target audience of "new players.") perhaps some other players would like to give you a hand in this project. Factional breakdowns would be ideal, but even generalised P1/P2 breakdowns are a step in the right direction.

Best of luck with this project.

(As a side note, you may want to draw attention to the fact that P2's leader has a slightly larger defensive span relative to their important villages, and that P2 can attack P1 "hot zone" villages from angles that would cost a "punishing" P1 leader more than 2 moves from their keep -P2 units can kill a village occupant or surrounding units, and as long as they don't take the village, the P1 leader can't reach them unless they make a third move away from their keep, spending 6 total turns of movement {four with no recruiting}. So, in regards to P2's defense, this allows them to trap/punish careless village theft, and attack with a slightly greater degree of safety, but this is of course offset by the fact that P1 is always one full turn of movement and recruiting ahead, and that other small peculiarities of the layout angle things towards equality. Also, I'm not sure that it's right to tell P2 that they'll usually be defending- TOD is probably the biggest influence, and many P1 players won't want to rush in on their first favorable TOD anyway. As you said though, you're generalising, so it's hard for me to flat out advise otherwise.)
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Alks
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Post by Alks »

Excellent one. I'll keep on reading the further ones. Reading rather than comment, I'm pretty casual Wesnoth-gamer. However, i give my thumbs up to the project.
PrinceRepulsive
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Post by PrinceRepulsive »

Thanks for the encouraging responses! I've got a question, though, Doc. What does a "punishing leader" mean? Aside from that, I agree with your TOD thing.
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

PrinceRepulsive wrote:Thanks for the encouraging responses! I've got a question, though, Doc. What does a "punishing leader" mean? Aside from that, I agree with your TOD thing.
I'm just referring to a leader's ability to "punish" an enemy overextention within a certain range, relative of course to the central recruiting hex. You understand what I was saying about the defensive span of the P1 and P2 leaders though, right? That's mainly what I was trying to convey.
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Complex
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Post by Complex »

Well, I managed to play this map (as P1) with Northernes against drakes, and I got severly beaten. And that has been for strategic reasons alone, not for tactics. Just until a few turns before the end the kills/losses have been 1:1, which should normally get me an economic advantage, as them drakes are much more expensive - plus I used (and lost) quite some gobs, which I really like against drakes. Even then, he always had more troops when counting the sheer numbers. He just held more villages most of the time. I cannot ZOC the whole map, and by the time my village-grabber get a village back, he always stole 1 or 2 more from me.

Of course it was possible to pin a glider down in some edge of the map (northern edge, unfortunately) from time to time, but that always kept 2 or even three units of mine on the run (and also 1-2 turns after the kill to come back down), while some other glider was feasting on my villages on the other side of the map.

Then, it is no use to play the same game with wolf riders, as they are easily hunted down by the also very mobile fighting drakes, against whom they stand no chance.
PrinceRepulsive
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Post by PrinceRepulsive »

Complex, that's a different issue. Village stealing is a strategy that works well on a big map but not on a small, at least against a good player. The trick for stopping it is called Zone of Control. A good player can use this to keep scouts out of villages, or into suicide thefts. Seeing as taking the village only gains a 4 gold advantage while the cheapest scout is 8, it just isn't worth it. Still, though, it takes practice to be able to beat a village stealer. I know, I was one for a while.

One more thing. Goblins are useful against drakes, but they should not be the meat of your force. I prefer to use trolls or grunts to hold them while my assassins poison them and archers get the kill. Or something like that. Goblins should be recruited when you need troops and can't get other stuff. Remember-- Rouser first, then Impalers.
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Post by Doc Paterson »

PrinceRepulsive wrote: Seeing as taking the village only gains a 4 gold
I agree with a lot of what you said, but this (only a 4 gold swing) is usually not the case. Much of the time, it's a swing of 6, because your upkeep is -1 and theirs is +1.

So you have +2 for you, -2 for them (straight-up gold production, swing of 4) and +1 upkeep, -1 upkeep (swing of 2) that gives you a 6G advantage.
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Post by IB »

Personally I'd say Blitz is much more simple than Charge.
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Re: A study on Charge

Post by Tonepoet »

PrinceRepulsive wrote: Player 1

Part 1: Villages
The Village getting stage early on is a crucial stage. Getting ALL the villages in the north is CRITICAL to the game. If you do not, your life will be short and your death painful. I usually prefer to send a water unit or saurian through the swamp to that village. If you're Knalgans, you won't have a problem sending a unit over the mountains near that village, and if you're UD, I'd recommend a bat. Although I'm not too sure about the bat :?.
Since you're unsure of the bat, may I suggest a ghost as a possible alternative? They're slowed over water and have 1 less movement but over every other terrain they move just as efficiently, even swamp. If I recall correctly, it'll get there just as fast (two turns). Even if I do remember correctly however, my information may not be up to date for reasons completely unrelated to this thread.
PrinceRepulsive
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Re: A study on Charge

Post by PrinceRepulsive »

Tonepoet wrote:
PrinceRepulsive wrote: Player 1

Part 1: Villages
The Village getting stage early on is a crucial stage. Getting ALL the villages in the north is CRITICAL to the game. If you do not, your life will be short and your death painful. I usually prefer to send a water unit or saurian through the swamp to that village. If you're Knalgans, you won't have a problem sending a unit over the mountains near that village, and if you're UD, I'd recommend a bat. Although I'm not too sure about the bat :?.
Since you're unsure of the bat, may I suggest a ghost as a possible alternative? They're slowed over water and have 1 less movement but over every other terrain they move just as efficiently, even swamp. If I recall correctly, it'll get there just as fast (two turns). Even if I do remember correctly however, my information may not be up to date for reasons completely unrelated to this thread.
Thanks, I'll try that!
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ChibiDwarf
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Post by ChibiDwarf »

I find the right side of this map very open. If I find P2 capturing the villages with a not-so-fast fighter unit in the right I always get a gryphon rider to steal his villages. Keep the rider moving around in the bototm right triangle of villages and that'll occupy at least one of his fighter for a long time, or be able to force him to use a load of units to ZOC it. If he doesn't send any unit to take out the gryphon rider you can then proceed to steal all 3 of his villages.

However I always find my self giving up on the top left most villages--my dwarfs units are slow walking and I won't be able to set up a solid line in the left if I spend a turn walking towards that village. Anyhow, the extra villages on the right side pretty much compensates that.

That being said, Take my words light, though, as I'm not as experienced and wise as everyone else here in the name of a person who has just started. For any incorrect wordings, I sincerely apologize beforehand.

P.S. Computer luck is too extreme--I just played a match with computer as a warm up. Dwarf vs dwarf. I lost--through out the whole game none of my units managed to land a SINGLE hit on the computer! This is just too extreme isn't it?
csarmi
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usefulness

Post by csarmi »

Hiya!

It might be only me, but I understand NOTHING (and by that I really mean close to none) of this guide. I have tried so hard, but without illustrations, I simply never know which part of the map are you talking about.

I'm getting lost at the 4th sentence or so.

May I suggest you illustrate your points with either:

a) screenshots/pictures
b) coordinates
c) CLEAR naming/numbering of islands/villages/important spots

Thanks in advance.
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