How to play Undead
Moderator: Forum Moderators
@sitenuker
Magical should be detrimental, it is by design. If the devs wanted it to be "always at least 70% to hit", they would have used the same code for attack and defense as "marksmanship", which is "at least...". Imp's explanation is the one i have seen mentioned many times, and makes sense, which is great because the devs seem to think this situation is a good one from a gameplay perspective.
Magical should be detrimental, it is by design. If the devs wanted it to be "always at least 70% to hit", they would have used the same code for attack and defense as "marksmanship", which is "at least...". Imp's explanation is the one i have seen mentioned many times, and makes sense, which is great because the devs seem to think this situation is a good one from a gameplay perspective.
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.
Oops, sorry, my mistake. Yes it is marksmanship which uses the phrase "at least". Also I agree that a flat 70% chance makes more sense.Gus wrote:@sitenuker
Magical should be detrimental, it is by design. If the devs wanted it to be "always at least 70% to hit", they would have used the same code for attack and defense as "marksmanship", which is "at least...". Imp's explanation is the one i have seen mentioned many times, and makes sense, which is great because the devs seem to think this situation is a good one from a gameplay perspective.
-
shieldw0lf
- Posts: 3
- Joined: September 11th, 2007, 4:20 pm
Synergy
I haven't found anything in these tutorials that didn't help my game immensely, thanks for all the time and effort.
I find these tutorials are really good for addressing combat between factions, but some of the weaker units seem to be getting short shrift.
Vampire bats are awesome. They move with blinding speed over any terrain, and they're cheap. I like to start my first turn by making as many as there are hexes in my castle. The economic lead you get from village rushing with them gives you a big early lead, and you can take a bigger more expensive unit out of play by forcing it to run around behind you converting villages back.
After the rush, when you've already got most of the villages and the ones you don't have are defended, the vampire bats will be rather useless for a bit, but they come back into their own as light air support. They are excellent to have around to deliver a killing blow when the unit you thought was going to die ends up having a few hit points left and nothing else can get there, particularly when they level, which they do quickly.
Another strategy that is very that I don't see mentioned on here is the ghoul/walking dead swarm. If you can park a ghoul on every village in an area, and surround them with a swarm of walking dead, you have complete zone of control coverage of the area. If you can trap enemy units, poisoned, stuck in a milling swarm of cheap, easily replenished zombies, they generally won't escape.
That's just my 2c. Thanks for the great tutorials.
I find these tutorials are really good for addressing combat between factions, but some of the weaker units seem to be getting short shrift.
Vampire bats are awesome. They move with blinding speed over any terrain, and they're cheap. I like to start my first turn by making as many as there are hexes in my castle. The economic lead you get from village rushing with them gives you a big early lead, and you can take a bigger more expensive unit out of play by forcing it to run around behind you converting villages back.
After the rush, when you've already got most of the villages and the ones you don't have are defended, the vampire bats will be rather useless for a bit, but they come back into their own as light air support. They are excellent to have around to deliver a killing blow when the unit you thought was going to die ends up having a few hit points left and nothing else can get there, particularly when they level, which they do quickly.
Another strategy that is very that I don't see mentioned on here is the ghoul/walking dead swarm. If you can park a ghoul on every village in an area, and surround them with a swarm of walking dead, you have complete zone of control coverage of the area. If you can trap enemy units, poisoned, stuck in a milling swarm of cheap, easily replenished zombies, they generally won't escape.
That's just my 2c. Thanks for the great tutorials.
A good strategy should work against human players too.
Against the AI you can win with walking corpses only and its quite alot of fun due to the very nice froms they take when they upgrade.
For me at least the dark adpet is "the" core unit of the undead. All other untis are helpers to protect or take villages fast. Only exception is a battle undead vs undead.
Against the AI you can win with walking corpses only and its quite alot of fun due to the very nice froms they take when they upgrade.
For me at least the dark adpet is "the" core unit of the undead. All other untis are helpers to protect or take villages fast. Only exception is a battle undead vs undead.
I have updated specifically the Undead vs Undead section in the wiki to suit the changes for the 1.3/1.4 branch. Do check it out and give feedback.
Take a breath.
-
Thrawn
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: June 2nd, 2005, 11:37 am
- Location: bridge of SSD Chimera
Mind if I create a general "how to play" section up top there, like I have for the northerners? This way the wikified "how to play series" will be more cohesive...anakayub wrote:I have updated specifically the Undead vs Undead section in the wiki to suit the changes for the 1.3/1.4 branch. Do check it out and give feedback.
Last edited by Thrawn on February 2nd, 2008, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott
this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
What do you mean? There's already this page for northerners by the way.Thrawn wrote:Mind if I create a general "how to play" section up top there, like I have for the northerners? This way the wikified "how to play series" will be more cohesive...anakayub wrote:I have updated specifically the Undead vs Undead section in the wiki to suit the changes for the 1.3/1.4 branch. Do check it out and give feedback.
Take a breath.
-
Thrawn
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: June 2nd, 2005, 11:37 am
- Location: bridge of SSD Chimera
I realized I typed the url wrong...I fixed it in my post and your quote. <_<anakayub wrote:What do you mean? There's already this page for northerners by the way.Thrawn wrote: Mind if I create a general "how to play" section up top there, like I have for the northerners? This way the wikified "how to play series" will be more cohesive...
The thing is, because I didn't want to touch JW's thing, I'm using this to experiment with a better format. They are great at the MP, not not some much giving the basics. sorry for the wrong link... XD
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott
this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
Re: How to play Undead
Hello,
I have a question how to play the undead race correctly.
I think undeads are really good, but in front of elves I have no chance to win. Everytime I fight against elves, I loose. I tried it several times with different tactics, for example to make a front of Skeletons and a second Line of DA's ... or to make a really big bunch of Curpse only. But every time I loose and I dont know how to fight against elves. :/
Do you have any tips for me ?
I have a question how to play the undead race correctly.
I think undeads are really good, but in front of elves I have no chance to win. Everytime I fight against elves, I loose. I tried it several times with different tactics, for example to make a front of Skeletons and a second Line of DA's ... or to make a really big bunch of Curpse only. But every time I loose and I dont know how to fight against elves. :/
Do you have any tips for me ?
Re: How to play Undead
Well that's really a bit general for us to be able give you much specific advice. Posting a replay of your game would be very helpful.(Though I won't be able to analyze it because I don't have wesnoth on the computer anymore. Taking a break to concentrate on other things. I'm sure there lots of other willing people who will be happy to look at.)
As I won't be able to look at any replays. I will just give general advice, from what you posted it sounds like you might be making this common newbie mistake.
Constantly attacking, no matter what terrain you opponents units are placed on, no matter what the time of day it is, with injured units that need to go back and heal.
You just need to think about what will happen next turn. Will your opponent be able to kill the attacking units next turn? Will attacking force you to fight a a bad time of day?. You simply have to think about what will a happen next turn.
As I won't be able to look at any replays. I will just give general advice, from what you posted it sounds like you might be making this common newbie mistake.
Constantly attacking, no matter what terrain you opponents units are placed on, no matter what the time of day it is, with injured units that need to go back and heal.
You just need to think about what will happen next turn. Will your opponent be able to kill the attacking units next turn? Will attacking force you to fight a a bad time of day?. You simply have to think about what will a happen next turn.
"if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do."
Angel- Angel the Series
"Sore thumbs. Do they stick out? I mean, have you ever seen a thumb and gone 'wow, that baby is sore'?"
Willow Rosenberg- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel- Angel the Series
"Sore thumbs. Do they stick out? I mean, have you ever seen a thumb and gone 'wow, that baby is sore'?"
Willow Rosenberg- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Re: How to play Undead
It's most of the time a bad idea to have to much of the same units.Hellboy5 wrote:to make a front of Skeletons and a second Line of DA's ... or to make a really big bunch of Curpse only.
Because your enemy will always have a counter.
So "big bunch of corpse" or "front of skeletons" may not help.
You need to recruit diverse units and use them there where it hurts the enemy most.
Skeletons are a good choice as long you keep them away from the magi and trees at day
I don't see any problems with an elf-woman hitting somebody with a mace...
Re: How to play Undead
Yes, I can't believe I missed that in my first post.mameluke wrote:It's most of the time a bad idea to have to much of the same units.
Because your enemy will always have a counter.
You're not far off if your army has all skeletons and adepts, most of the undead vs rebels army is skeletons and adepts, with a couple of scouts; a lot of people throw in a ghoul or two and possibly a couple skeleton archers, but it should be very possible to beat rebels with just the adept/skeleton/scout combo.
Corpse spamming isn't a good idea really, it's pretty easily countered. They are simply too slow, all your opponent needs to do is advance properly at day; the corpses are too slow to get away from your opponents advancing army at day, and too slow to catch your opponents retreating army at night.
The only time corpse spamming has much chance of working is in games where you opponent is also chaotic, and even in these matchups a good player will notice that you're corpse spamming and stop recruiting to prevent you getting an economic advantage.
A few corpses against rebels is ok, but if you are using them as your main troop you are making a mistake.
"if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do."
Angel- Angel the Series
"Sore thumbs. Do they stick out? I mean, have you ever seen a thumb and gone 'wow, that baby is sore'?"
Willow Rosenberg- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel- Angel the Series
"Sore thumbs. Do they stick out? I mean, have you ever seen a thumb and gone 'wow, that baby is sore'?"
Willow Rosenberg- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
-
Ghost_whore
- Posts: 36
- Joined: November 6th, 2008, 12:48 pm
Re: How to play Undead
.. i need help killing loyalists, what should i use VS The Upgrade of white mage and the fully upgraded heavy trooper things... My Bro keeps owning me with them ^^ thanks!!!
Attack my ghosts!! , whats this? day time? RUNNNN!
Re: How to play Undead
Ghost_whore, if you go to the first page of this thread, in the third post down JW explains how to use Undead versus Loyalists. That sound answer your questions.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time
-
Ghost_whore
- Posts: 36
- Joined: November 6th, 2008, 12:48 pm
Re: How to play Undead
I read that, will not much help, but i'll read it again now... i was tired, maybe i missed something.Turuk wrote:Ghost_whore, if you go to the first page of this thread, in the third post down JW explains how to use Undead versus Loyalists. That sound answer your questions.
Attack my ghosts!! , whats this? day time? RUNNNN!