A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc) -- In: Harvester, Thresher

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Turuk
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

Slightly better, though now the pose seems to be a still shot of him in motion rather than poising to attack, but it's certainly more aggressive.

You are right about the weapons, though are indistinct, particularly the one in his right hand.
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A-Red
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

Turuk wrote:Slightly better, though now the pose seems to be a still shot of him in motion rather than poising to attack, but it's certainly more aggressive.
It does a bit, but any position where you're seconds from attacking is pretty hard to maintain...unless I have him *really* crouch down, and then he'd be at least as short as the first sprite of him I posted. I was trying to put him on the balls of his feet, and have his upper body forward slightly from his legs--I think that's actually what it looks like, but as you say that's sort of an in-motion pose.

I've been trying lots of poses, and few have looked remotely realistic. If someone could provide a stick-frame or a good reference image from the right angle, it would really help.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

Hmm.... very true.

What if you kept the same pose, but moved his right leg forward a bit so that it seemed to be a bit more even with his left, so it looks as if he is on the balls of his feet and about to jump? I guess what gets me now is that the right leg seems to be behind him, which makes it look like he is moving.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

Like this?

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I think the weapons are much better now too. The knife is still pretty hard to see clearly on this background--here's the weapons on a darker one:

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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

Indeed, though perhaps lower the knee a bit so it's more visible that it is bent? At any point if you're happy, you can call it quits, otherwise I'll keep throwing out critique towards some sort of improvement. ;)

That is better for the weapons, and that's okay then for the knife. It will get lost on some terrain, but should show up on most.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

Any critique toward improvement is good. I'm still learning :)

I'll try dropping that knee highlight down a pixel--probably won't take much more than that, and it's too small an update to post here. It'll be nice to get off this sprite and start making another.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

Dreadnought (still from scratch, though as you can probably tell I checked several existing sprites for reference):

Image

Mostly a defensive unit, though his weak offensive abilities include both a melee and a ranged attack. Best used as a "meat shield," if you're willing to use the term meat loosely.

I'm happy with the quality of the sprite, but I'm not entirely happy with it conceptually. Like the other undead I've made, it's supposed to be mindless, and maybe angry/hungry--nothing remains of the person it used to be except the instincts to attack and defend. I feel like the current version looks too much like the old undead, with a fighting stance indicative of some measure of intelligence--I probably had the Wesnoth skeletons unconsciously in mind when I was making this. I still want him to be an armored skeleton though. Does he need a better pose, and what might it look like?
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by stimj »

Here's an idea if you're trying to make your sprites look more mindless: make their heads loll to one side. The way that the head of the souless (from the basic set of sprites) lists to one side definitely gives the impression that it is totally out of it and just standing there. You could also try that with other body parts, like make them hold the weapon at a more casual stance instead of straight up and ready to use. Just a thought.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

I think stimj hit the nail on the head. Having certain body parts be a bit more loose and less poised would make it seem as the mind controlling the "body" was not all there, or there at all really. You could have the spear be at a bit of an angle instead of help perfectly straight up, and maybe have the shield sag a little too.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

I don't think that mindless necessarily means listless and shambling though. I realize I just described them as "hungry", but I think that works better for the zombie-types than the skeletons. A machine can be perfectly graceful, and still leave no doubt for anyone looking at it that it has no thoughts. That's more what I wanted to go for with this guy, I think--silent, unexpressive, intent on a single purpose. If anyone has played the Myth series and seen the way the Soulless moves and acts (that's the unit the current Winnower is based on), that's exactly what I'm talking about. Or if anyone has seen the first Mummy movie and remembers the undead soldiers marching near the end.

I just don't want him to look like he's aware of what he's doing, which is why I worry that his current pose looks too much like a "fighting stance." The most obvious thing would be to make his legs straight, but I feel like that would be completely inconsistent with Wesnoth graphics.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

A-Red wrote:I don't think that mindless necessarily means listless and shambling though. I realize I just described them as "hungry", but I think that works better for the zombie-types than the skeletons. A machine can be perfectly graceful, and still leave no doubt for anyone looking at it that it has no thoughts. That's more what I wanted to go for with this guy, I think--silent, unexpressive, intent on a single purpose. If anyone has played the Myth series and seen the way the Soulless moves and acts (that's the unit the current Winnower is based on), that's exactly what I'm talking about. Or if anyone has seen the first Mummy movie and remembers the undead soldiers marching near the end.

I just don't want him to look like he's aware of what he's doing, which is why I worry that his current pose looks too much like a "fighting stance." The most obvious thing would be to make his legs straight, but I feel like that would be completely inconsistent with Wesnoth graphics.
Ah okay, different sort of mindless then, got it. I have to agree with your second paragraph then, though I think it would be hard to sell that without making him have fighting stance. The references you have given all had a bit more to work with in selling the unit as focused undead, particularly the Mummy, as you can see the facial expression or lack thereof and the stiff ordered marching on a unit scale. Might be harder to work into such a small sprite.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Lord Ork »

He doesn't seem angry nor hungry because he's too cautious. His pose is very defensive, I think, and that makes him seem as he really cares of himself. He is hiding behind the shield, quite retreated from it. This is a very logical stance for a legionary, but this guy is no cautious nor disciplinate, I think.

So, here comes the difficult thing: making a soldier with a huge shield not to appear so cautious. What about holding the shield nearer to him? Or making him look like being about to attack (leaving that graphic for the defense animation). Or maybe like advancing pushing the enemy with the shield.

Making his legs straight could also work, I think. The shield is heavy, but does he need to flex the knees as long as he hasn't muscles? Well, his balance it's better if flexed, but we don't need such realism, right?

Only a few ideas.
It is ok to correct me if my English is too bad.

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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

The shield is closer in, and I think the extra highlight makes it look more like metal. I'm sort of unhappy with how much detail I lost, and it looks slightly smaller now, but I think the shield was too far out in the first version to even be realistically attached to the arm. Better?

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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by Turuk »

It appears to be, he seems much more like a mindless automation, or at least I can picture endless ranks of them all standing like that, instead of him being the one skeleton standing that way.
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Re: A-Red's sprite art (Sorrow, etc)

Post by A-Red »

I'm back. It took me a long time to get the pose right on this one, but as with the reaver, I think it was worth the trouble to make them look dynamic. I've made four variations, to be randomized like the male/female sprites on some units, or the various walking corpse types. What do you guys think?


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