Problems with level 0 units

[telly]

Removing level 0's zoc would make them a bit less effective in smaller numbers but the problems are in extended games when someone masses hundreds of the things. You don't need zoc when you can just occupy every hex in the map :).

[Darth Fool]

Fair point. So here are some ways I could imagine the multiple attack thing working with out too much coding effort (with the exception of #7).

1) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack or movement (original suggestion)
1.5) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack, but you do lose your movement.
2) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack if you are of higher level.
3) Attacking lower level units do not cause you to lose your attack.
4) Attacking units two levels lower do not cause you to lose your attack.
5) Attacking lower level units do not cause you to lose your attack if you have any movement left, but you lose 1 movement point.
6) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack if you have any movement left, but you lose 1 movement.
7) balance 0-level units some other way.

personally I think I like 1.5 the best.

[Circon]

1 through 4 are to be thrown out the window immediately.
Walking Corpse/Bat. Archer. Infinite attacks. In some versions, move on and shoot at the next unit.
5 and 6 aren't much better. For Archer read Elvish Outrider... 10 attacks, choice of melee or ranged.

7 is my choice.

[turin]

I also support 7). i am against changing any rule of the game so there is an exception for lvl 0 units...

[MadMax]

I also support 7). i am against changing any rule of the game so there is an exception for lvl 0 units...

Agreed.

And congratulations on post 4000!

[turin]

hm... perhaps... the solution is to give lvl 0 units traits... one of which is like loyal, but it makes them cost no upkeep... otherwise they cost one upkeep...


just an idea.


OT: not sure its something to be proud of.

[hiryuu]

1) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack or movement (original suggestion)
1.5) Attacking 0-level units do not cause you to lose your attack, but you do lose your movement.

Err killing, specifically. Granted, an Arch or White Mage isn't far from Circon's example, but you could have a very exposed unit when you finally whiff all of your attacks.

Could you have a unit count limit? Max 20 level 0 units. Maybe 1 per village.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Could you have a unit count limit? Max 20 level 0 units. Maybe 1 per village.

What sort of limit? A limit on the number of units you can have, or a limit on how many count for upkeep?

[Shadow]

From a completely different field, could you give a unit a fresh clock (can attack & move) after killing a level 0? My real disagreement with level 0 stuff is that you can, at best, only kill one per your unit per turn, so they build up with no way to clear them out. (The AI is kind enough to attack with them, but a human would just leave the blockade.)

Why aren´t these units made a little bit harder to control. I mean give them rage (or something else) that they attack automatical and random a unit which is next to their hex.

[turin]

From a completely different field, could you give a unit a fresh clock (can attack & move) after killing a level 0? My real disagreement with level 0 stuff is that you can, at best, only kill one per your unit per turn, so they build up with no way to clear them out. (The AI is kind enough to attack with them, but a human would just leave the blockade.)

Why aren´t these units made a little bit harder to control. I mean give them rage (or something else) that they attack automatical and random a unit which is next to their hex.

why should a unit do stuff you don't order it to do? that is counterintuitive and ruins any potential strategy that involves small amounts of lvl 0 units, but doesn't really have any effect on the wall-of-lvl-0s.

[hiryuu]

What sort of limit? A limit on the number of units you can have, or a limit on how many count for upkeep?

Either total number or number before they start costing upkeep.

[telly]

Either total number or number before they start costing upkeep.

This has the same problem as with only paying upkeep at night (or whenever), it'd make things very difficult for the player to keep track of their income.

[Elvish_Pillager]

To try to think of ideas, I imagined myself a horde of Walking Corpses in a "realistic" fantasy situation. I came up with these ideas:

• Make them level 1.
• Reduce their HP to 5.
• Whenever a unit moves into a Walking Corpse's ZoC, the Walking Corpse attacks it automatically.

[scott]

Or just make all L0 units so weak that swarming with them isn't attractive. It would be like having an army of ants. Sure, you have one but who cares? Then, what good are L0 units? You tell me! Scouting, absorbing a turn of damage, and that would be about it.

I think this is the most simple and elegant solution. The walking corpse is not that weak. Neither is the goblin spearman. I think the bat should have a serious pierce weakness.

[Circon]

ZoC.

Zing!