Level 3 Dwarvish Berserker?

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rezaf
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Level 3 Dwarvish Berserker?

Post by rezaf »

Well, here's an idea for a level 3 Dwarvish Berserker based on a character I remember reading about in a book. I _think_ it was a AD&D book by R.A. Salvatore, but I'm not entirely sure.

Dwarvish Battlerager
Level: 3
Race: Dwarf
Abilities: regenerates
Alignment: Neutral
Moves: 5
HP: 60
Advanced from: Dwarvish Berserker

Attacks:
Battlerager Embrace
(Blade, 6-6) berserk

Horned Helmet
(Pierce, 12-2) charge


Of all Ulfserkers, only a small minority survive long enough to advance to Berserkers, and even less Berserkers get a chance to become Battleragers. These selected few are seasoned veterans at their unique approach to combat. They have abandoned all weaponry and use a custom fit piece of armor instead, which completely covers their bodies in metal, yet leaves them surprisingly mobile. This armor is covered with blades and sharp edges all over, which the Battleragers utilize to inflict harm on their foes in an efficient fashion. Additionally, they have attached a metal pike to the helmets of their armor, with which they ocasionally choose to charge enemies.
Furthermore, they use a improved version of the brew Ulfserkers and Berserkers utilize to get themselves into battle-ready condition, enabling them to recover from wounds much faster for the entire duration of a battle.


Didn't come up with resistances yet, and I'm aware that the image is rather crude, but it isn't meant as a final version. I especially dislike the pike, but I couldn't come up with a decent version. :cry:

I initially made this unit for a dwarven campaign I had in mind, but then I discovered there already IS a dwarven campaign, so I think I'll rather make a different one instead. Anyway, for the time being, I'm only interested in other people's opinions on the unit itself - feel free to stomp it, as I'm not at all sure it even fits into the game.

Still, somehow I like the idea of improving my surviving berserkers even further, in the unlikely case they can stick to their lives long enough, anyway. :wink:
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rezaf

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Ardonik
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Post by Ardonik »

It doesn't fit.

The ulfserker and berserker are considered multiplayer units. Since it is very hard to keep them alive long enough to level during campaigns, campaign developers don't care to use them.

My prediction is that you would see almost none of these "battleragers" in multiplayer, even during Age of Heroes at 30%. Even when you did see them, no one would want to fight with them because the experience they earned would be wasted when they were hit by a superior melee unit.

As for the 12-2 charge, I think it is an absurd attack for a dwarf.

Edit: You gave it regeneration, too?
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Post by Tippsey »

Although the weapon doesn't completely fit or the chrage they might be able to get a first strike horn instead showing them charging with such furvor that they scare the opponent. As for it not appearing not many lv 3 units do appear, but the ulf isn't that hard to level up with the proper strategies. As for it not being used with a non beserk attack it could indeed be used just like all lv 3's without soaking exp. Though with the regen you might which to keep the beserk attack more toned down showing the dwarf became more tempered. His regen might even be explained by he's taken so many hits and wounds in his career his immune system adapted. Farfetched yes but do able.
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rezaf
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Post by rezaf »

@Ardonik:
I don't think a *serker is that hard to keep alive. Not more difficult than a mage, anyway. And I haven't played multiplayer yet, do I didn't have multiplayer in mind at all. Like I said, it was supposed to be a rarely seen unit in a user campaign.
About the charge attack: I'm with you that it may sound a little unfitting for a dwarf, but the main reason I chose it was that it does double damage accepting to receive double damage in turn, which kinda seems to fit a berserkers spirit.

The regeneration thing quells from the inspiration source, the novel. In it, the dwarves would carry a terrible tasting brew which they would quaff when in need, when it would function as a potion of healing.

@Tippsey
What I wrote above, Charge was chosen solely because it's an attack that favors offense over defense. A firststrike horn attack would have to disreagard the berserker spirit, only doing damage in a standard way...
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

I like the idea of a level 3 advancement for the Dwarvish Berserker... :|
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Post by Faello »

I think that rezar idea is quite cool ! This description of Battlerager is really good also ! :D
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
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Post by Tomsik »

imo 9-4 will be good
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Post by turin »

Well, like EP, I like the idea of having a level-3 berserker.... the name battlerager might even be good... but, I'm sorry to say, this idea doesn't sound like an advancement of the berserker... I'm not sure how to explain why, but it doesn't.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

tomsik wrote:imo 9-4 will be good
I think 11-4, 67 HP, call it Great Grizzly Axemaster and use neorice's graphics. Actually, Regenerates might be a good idea too.
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Post by squasher »

Elvish Pillager wrote:6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
does it? 6-6 means 2 free hits, while 10-4 (more damage) is imo not as impressive as 6-6.

67 hp also is a lot, but i doubt this L3 berserker you suppose will be able to kill a royal guard. (supposing they have an equal defense, during dawn/dusk.) Should he be able to do anyway?
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Post by turin »

squasher wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
does it?
Yes. Even though 6-6 does more damage and is more "impressive", it does less damage per stroke. Any reduction in any number that is good, or any increase in any number that is bad (i.e. resistances), violates RIBLIP, even if the unit as a whole gets better.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

squasher wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
does it?
Yes.
squasher wrote:67 hp also is a lot, but i doubt this L3 berserker you suppose will be able to kill a royal guard. (supposing they have an equal defense, during dawn/dusk.) Should he be able to do anyway?
Let's see. 9-4 60% for GGA, 8-4 70% for RG. 67 HP for GGA, 75 for RG. Basically trading blows with average damage 5.4 vs. 5.6, the Royal Guard is the clear winner.

The Berserker loses to the Swordsman, so it seems logical that its advancement lose to a Royal Guard.
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Post by Disto »

squasher wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
does it? 6-6 means 2 free hits, while 10-4 (more damage) is imo not as impressive as 6-6.

67 hp also is a lot, but i doubt this L3 berserker you suppose will be able to kill a royal guard. (supposing they have an equal defense, during dawn/dusk.) Should he be able to do anyway?


67 hp isn't alot for a level 3, i've seen 4 level 2s with very similar hps, Ogre, Drake Slasher, Orc Ruler and the Troll Hero and they are all level 2. Hp means nothing without resistances and imagine a wraith with 50 hp, that'd be a night mare with its resistances whereas a troll whelp with 50 hp wouldn't because it doesn't resist. Only a couple of low resistances won't mean anything.
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rezaf
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Post by rezaf »

Whoa, looks like quite a discussion has arised. Thanks for everybody contributing his ideas. 8)
Elvish Pillager wrote:6-6 violates RIPLIB. It needs to be at least 7 damage.
Ah, my apologies. I was under the impression that the higher total damage was what counted. Thanks for making this clear to me.
turin wrote: the name battlerager might even be good... but, I'm sorry to say, this idea doesn't sound like an advancement of the berserker... I'm not sure how to explain why, but it doesn't.
The name was also taken from what I'm now pretty sure was a novel. I think its fitting for such a unit, but I can also see where you're coming from.
Elvish Pillager wrote:I think 11-4, 67 HP, call it Great Grizzly Axemaster and use neorice's graphics. Actually, Regenerates might be a good idea too.
Somehow I like this name even less. :(
Also, my main idea when giving the Battlerager that many attacks was that it would increase the overall chance of inflicting damage when at the same time having an advantage against most enemies because they usually would have less than seven attacks. Having only 4 attacks would totally defeat that advantage. To cope, I guess a substantial increase of the unit's hitpoints would be in order. More than 7 additional HPs, anyway.
squasher wrote: does it? 6-6 means 2 free hits, while 10-4 (more damage) is imo not as impressive as 6-6.
Exactly my thought, but made more clear using fewer words. Thanks. :)


Now, while I'll definately keep the name in mind, maybe for using it to christian another unit someday, I'd have no problem parting with the name.

How 'bout Gad(d)serker (from norse gaddr for metal/iron and, as before, serkr for shirt/vest)?

Edit:
Which artwork are you referring to, EP? If a different approach to the unit were used, the proposed name would of course be unfitting. I tried to fabricate something involving Fenris, the man-sized wolf of norse mythology, but couldn't come up with anything.
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