Imperial Multiplayer Era - version 0.17 released

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Disto
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Post by Disto »

Wait i made one this morning as a matter of fact!
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unsung
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Post by unsung »

tomsik and disto eventually left, but me and your replacement had already pretty much won by that time. it would have taken awhaile to clear disto's castle out, but it would have happened eventually.
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ILikeProgramming
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Post by ILikeProgramming »

The current version does not have the images be external binaries, so the images don't show.
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turin
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Post by turin »

ILikeProgramming wrote:The current version does not have the images be external binaries, so the images don't show.
What? They show up for me. Since you know WML, perhaps you could post the code you think is erroneous?
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unsung
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Post by unsung »

I havent thought of ANY ways to balance the lavinians, other than uping the cost of the legionarre by 1 or 2.

anyone else have any thoughts on that?
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
unsung
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Post by unsung »

I have thought of a way to beter ballance legionares: change resitance to blade to 20% instead of 30%

also, I was reminded today that aragwaith pikemen do the same amount of damage as spearmen, which I think need sto be fixed.

also, remove the resistance to impact, that way people can beat them.

shields did nohting against a good mace swing after all, and we need some weaknesses.
Last edited by unsung on September 22nd, 2005, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

unsung wrote:I havent thought of ANY ways to balance the lavinians, other than uping the cost of the legionarre by 1 or 2.

anyone else have any thoughts on that?
The Legionairre should be at least 24 gold, and no, I'm not kidding- I think that's the majority of your problem right there.

As it is, you have a damaging melee unit that can do slow on both ranged and melee (?!?), is 50 defense on grassland (!?! :lol: ?!), and has good resistances......it's really really ridiculous just how unbalanced it is.

What is the rationale for having a unit with armor and a shield be as hard to hit as a ghost?

And two forms of slow?

The low defense in forest is interesting, but I don't think it fits well with the precedent set by other armored units. It's always been a minumum of 40, even for units like the Iron Mauler. Did they just not get the "forest training" course or something? :D
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aelius
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Post by aelius »

Doc Paterson wrote:The low defense in forest is interesting, but I don't think it fits well with the precedent set by other armored units. It's always been a minumum of 40, even for units like the Iron Mauler. Did they just not get the "forest training" course or something? :D
Historically legionary armies fared terribly in the forest. Terribly.

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unsung
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Post by unsung »

1. tower shield.
2.pillia made people slower if it struck. I think I explained it in my first post.
3.ummm I don't know. they were effective on th eopen plains, and sucked miseraly in the woods so it was a situation of 1+1=2 for turin I gues (or whoever thought of it)
4.uhhhh thats too much. 20 is th emost I think. I think you were overreacting with that suggestion. I think it should be raised by 1 or 2 gold; if you add in my other suggestions I think it will be enough to finally balance it.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
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turin
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Post by turin »

Doc Paterson wrote:As it is, you have a damaging melee unit that can do slow on both ranged and melee (?!?), is 50 defense on grassland (!?! :lol: ?!), and has good resistances......it's really really ridiculous just how unbalanced it is.
1. He doesn't have a slow melee until level 2.
2. He has 50% on grassland, but pretty bad everywhere else.
3. He has very low HP (30 is less than the elvish fighter).
3. I'm considering lowering his damage. ;)

What is the rationale for having a unit with armor and a shield be as hard to hit as a ghost?

And two forms of slow?
Doc Paterson wrote:The low defense in forest is interesting, but I don't think it fits well with the precedent set by other armored units. It's always been a minumum of 40, even for units like the Iron Mauler. Did they just not get the "forest training" course or something? :D
Legioniares suck in forest, much more than a Heavy Infantryman would, because formations don't work there.
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And I hate stupid people.
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unsung
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Post by unsung »

one last thing:
the age of heroes type version disto made ought to be included as well, IMO
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

turin wrote:
Doc Paterson wrote:The low defense in forest is interesting, but I don't think it fits well with the precedent set by other armored units. It's always been a minumum of 40, even for units like the Iron Mauler. Did they just not get the "forest training" course or something? :D
Legioniares suck in forest, much more than a Heavy Infantryman would, because formations don't work there.
So, by that reasoning, they're using "formations" when they're alone, on grassland?

Unless you're going to actually code formations in some way, I don't think the 50 defense makes any sense.

Remember that something like 50 defense also suggests that it's tough to even make contact (otherwise you'd convey this with a resistance). If they do have the capability to be this nimble and evasive, they really ought not to be 30 in the forest.
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unsung
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Post by unsung »

*sighs*
hey-it makes them different, which is good, and forest were bad fo rthem in history ,its something that was carried over. plus, it is hard to go thorugh the shield and make contact, unless your an ogre.
plus, its a way to get the effetct of formations and show what happens without them with out really doing it, which is hard with hexes. :roll:

pikemen sucked on their own, yet you aren't complaining about THAT.

(don't say that they didn't, because once on your own all the enemy had to do was close in and gut you. a pike wasn't able to move fast ebough to hit in a one on one fight)
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
Anyar
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Post by Anyar »

unsung wrote:pikemen sucked on their own, yet you aren't complaining about THAT.

(don't say that they didn't, because once on your own all the enemy had to do was close in and gut you. a pike wasn't able to move fast ebough to hit in a one on one fight)
They could move fast enough, its just that a swordsman with basic skill can easily disarm a pikeman.
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

unsung wrote:*sighs*

pikemen sucked on their own, yet you aren't complaining about THAT.

(don't say that they didn't, because once on your own all the enemy had to do was close in and gut you. a pike wasn't able to move fast ebough to hit in a one on one fight)
Is this logic? I think it goes without saying that the entire Wesnoth system and universe isn't based on reality. (Or maybe Drakes and Woses did fight in the Crusades....) They are created relative to the game that they are placed within, a realm established (in the case of warrior representations) by all other units. I realise that this particular faction is based largely on real history, but you're still choosing to have them interact with Wesnoth units in the Wesnoth system. Because of this, they must still exist in relation to the others, and should therefore refer to the guidlines and definitions that have emerged over time. It's for this reason that I say it's not very sensible to have a single unit conceptually gaining a formation bonus when it's alone on grassland, or to have that same unit (an armored unit) disregard the precedents of all other armored units and be able to avoid(dodge, sidestep or whatever) half of all non-magical attacks. We know that Wesnoth has always defined units as singular entities, and that interactive abilities have always been just that; abilities (leadership, illuminates, etc.). To suddenly disregard that singularity and say "he's in a formation," just seems like a silly execution of the concept.

I really don't want to get into a long debate over this; it's your guys' creation, and the decisions will of course be yours. All stubborness aside though, I think you really ought to consider some of these points.

Good luck with the era.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
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