The high elves

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MadMax
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Post by MadMax »

If these are to be included, I hope these are not put into multiplayer, but used as special units in Home of the North Elves and others.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Thing with skirmishers: Units that skirmish tend to be 'assassin' type units, that finish off wounded units. And High Elves just don't seem the type to be assassins...
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Post by scott »

But, strong swordfighters who can move freely about the battlefield killing everyone who gets in their way can also be skirmishers. Think about the big battle scenes in Braveheart and LOTR, where the main heroes just had their way with everyone. As long as you wrote it up that way in the description I think it would be fine in peoples' minds.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

scott wrote:But, strong swordfighters who can move freely about the battlefield killing everyone who gets in their way can also be skirmishers. Think about the big battle scenes in Braveheart and LOTR, where the main heroes just had their way with everyone. As long as you wrote it up that way in the description I think it would be fine in peoples' minds.
That sounds nice for an alternate upgrade for a fighter, rather than a level 1 unit.

Also, in those big battles, the heroes run around slaying villainous soldiers who are trying to kill them, while in Wesnoth, what skirmishers often end up doing is running around slaughtering the wounded who are trying to retreat.

An interesting, but fatally flawed, idea: Give the High Elves a trait that gives them Skirmisher.
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scott
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Post by scott »

Elvish Pillager wrote:
scott wrote:But, strong swordfighters who can move freely about the battlefield killing everyone who gets in their way can also be skirmishers. Think about the big battle scenes in Braveheart and LOTR, where the main heroes just had their way with everyone. As long as you wrote it up that way in the description I think it would be fine in peoples' minds.
That sounds nice for an alternate upgrade for a fighter, rather than a level 1 unit.

Also, in those big battles, the heroes run around slaying villainous soldiers who are trying to kill them, while in Wesnoth, what skirmishers often end up doing is running around slaughtering the wounded who are trying to retreat.
Agreed. I'm playing scenario 4 in UtBS right now and your L3 elves get to wade through a bunch of L0 goblins. That's the flavor I had in mind, except it could be any enemy instead of L0 goblins.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

scott wrote:Agreed. I'm playing scenario 4 in UtBS right now and your L3 elves get to wade through a bunch of L0 goblins. That's the flavor I had in mind, except it could be any enemy instead of L0 goblins.
At these levels, an alternate level 3 with very powerful damage-per-attack (maybe 15-3) and Skirmish would fulfill the---

'slaughter-the-enemy-leader-in-one-round' position in the faction. Ugh.

P.S. irrelevant comment: We need a High Elvish High Lord, too, y'know.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

scott wrote:They remind me of samurai (again, just having watched "The Last Samurai"...). The cavalry with scary-looking armor (the horns), the loose clothing, the spears, etc.
Well, those weren't intended to be horns, they were really a direct rip from these guys: (See attached)

If nothing else (and I did like a lot of other stuff about the movies), the visual design of the lord of the rings movies was ... astounding. In many ways, those movies were a dream come true for me, just like when apple made OS X - works that I had been hoping for for most of my life. Sure, they got a few things wrong, but there was so much that they did better than I had hoped for. The look of most of the characters was spot-on .. especially ones like Galadriel, or Aragorn in his full regalia as king. :) I could go on, but ...

As is known, I have ripped a little bit from Warhammer (not to be confused with the sci-fi Warhammer 40000). I saw some kid in my dorm playing around with some figurines of "high elves", and I thought - damn, those things look cool. About all these guys share with them is the full-body chain mail, and the blue, silver and white color scheme. They will not be getting the sun insignia, or any of the gold work that the warhammer fellows had, and their hats look completely different, which means they actually don't have much in common with them except in the most general of terms. One could say with just as much justification that I was using a french provençal color theme (if I had more gold). Some colors just look good together.



As for the horns: It is the limitation of sprite art that no matter how good I get, I just simply do not have the resolution to draw things in such a way that they can only be interpreted one way.

The solution, short of doubling the resolution of our sprites (not practical - we may as well just go to 3d), is to provide drawn pictures of every unit, like ragnarok online does. Perhaps that day will come.

(on a side note, I really do need to get around to watching "the last samurai" - even my japanese friends say it was a decent movie, and I rather liked some of the music I heard from it).

Oh, yeah - if you want to do dvd screengrabs on a mac, open the DVD in VLC Media Player (free, oss), and then use Grab with the Capture->Selection tool. VLC otherwise sucks for DVD playback, compared to apple's DVD Player program, but that one feature is quite useful.
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quartex
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Post by quartex »

Beautiful screenshot. The Noldor (or other of Tolkien high elves) and the images of Gondorian solides from the LOTR movies are both great influences for wesnoth high elves.
Sangel
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Post by Sangel »

As a matter of fact, the guards in the wingèd helms were my favourite visual feature from a movie filled with amazing visual features. I only wish we'd seen more of them. (And yes, I immediately recognised the source for the 3rd level rider's helm)

Just to make sure - you didn't miss my suggestions for High Elvish improvement on Page 1 did you Jetryl?
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Sangel wrote:Just to make sure - you didn't miss my suggestions for High Elvish improvement on Page 1 did you Jetryl?
I don't "miss" much, on these forums. Those who have more than two brain cells to rub together (or a full complement, like you have), I read in full, and those who I respect (another nod to you), I heed even more closely.

Now, whether I do anything based on those suggestions is another matter entirely.

The only thought I have with the archer is to give him the head of the sharpshooter (basically). I can give them some fancy helms for the higher levels, but I need breathing space for variety. I really didn't want to give them the exact same hat as the wood elves @ level-1.

I'll try, This high elf thing was the last spurt of wesnoth work for some time - I have some schoolwork I need to catch up on, so it'll be a week or two before I get anything else significant done.

I think I'll finish the dwarves and naga, and animations for the mermen first, then, if it's ok, commit these unanimated, and then set into animating the lot of them. Amongst other things. It is heartening to know, though, that we have other folks working on other things - Frame, for example, is doing as good or better than I could ever do on terrain. And thus that's one thing I never have to worry about.
Sangel
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Post by Sangel »

Thanks. I just thought that I'd check, as I sometimes miss posts myself when there's a change of page in the topic between visits. Whether you decide to take my suggestions on board is, as ever, entirely up to you.

And good luck with those classes man. Mine have been a damn pain for most of this semester, so I know what you're talking about. Damned soporific professors who test on every sleep-inducing lecture they give...
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
dtw
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Post by dtw »

oh, lucky me - that was like xmas! not only do i get to see the pictures but i get to start a whole popular thread

they don't half look like the high eleves in Warhammer (GW) of yore, and i loved them, tho i never played warhammer.

Personally, i'd support armouring the bowmen too
Disto
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Post by Disto »

Yeah at least give the archer a chain shirt, and then some leather for legs, arms.
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Ankka
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Post by Ankka »

Disto wrote:Yeah at least give the archer a chain shirt, and then some leather for legs, arms.
Well, I just noticed the level 1 sperman (I think) doesn't really have armor either, so this isn't so bad without armor.
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Post by Dave »

There is no question that there units look very, very cool. I just wonder how long it'll take from when a version is released with them included until user campaigns with them as the protagonists show up. :)

My only suggestion wrt their stats at the moment is that they should be lawful, not neutral.

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