Internet Meme Era v 0.0.8

[Dixie]

Well, well, guys, sorry for the long break. I guess my comeing back in here is long overdue, huh? I have to admit that I'm more the sprinter kind of guy: I'm more inclined to lay out plans and then when I start working on something, I can do so intensively and breeze through from A to Z. That development thing and constant tweaking stuff is killing me in the long run!... And there's also the sprite side, which, while I'm not utterly helpless at, is not really my thing all that much and of which I tire quickly.

Lately, I've also been wondering about the whole point of doing eras. Not much people play 'em at all, if not in survivals and other such stuff. Unless there's some project for campaigns and stuff down the road... I've been questionning the whole point of those a bit in the past weeks. But it shouldn't stop me too much from applying some much needed fixes.

I also have very little time left to myself between university, GF and various domestic chores, but I should be able to scrape a few hours every now and then in evenings and weekends. My undisclosed secret Wesnoth project has also slowed to a crawl (remember that comment about me being a sprinter? ) so this should leave me more time for applying fixes on IME.

I do not want to force the burden upon anybody, but now that I think of it, maybe we could split the charges or something? Like, I could be the lead coder and main designer for, say, pirates and ninjas, and if anybody feels like taking over the designing/art department for cowboys or triffids... (I'm assuming lindsay would take the bots). I don't know what difference that would really make upon my workload, though... I'll meditate on that.

Anyway, enough venting already

So I need to get back to where we were at. I wouldn't want to let you guys down too much, because you've put some efforts and thoughts into the era as well, and you deserve that we at least get it somewhere half-finished. So, here's what my To Do List (which I haven,t opened in about a month) says:

Spoiler:

Internet Meme Era: To Do List


Generic stuff:
- Change Era's name (Outta Wesnoth Era? Thematic Era? Stereotypes Era?);
- Think of a setting/make researches on Irdya;
- Balance the whole thing;
- Have sound effects, animations & SPECIAL_NOTES macros for most abilities & specials;
- Attack anims (at least sounds & projectiles)
- Fix status overlay issue;

Ninjas:
- Sprites for Samurais, Monks & Fireworks;
- Design flash bomb unit;
- Water mvt;

Pirates:
- Sprites for the whole faction;

Cowboys:
- Design a Trapper/Explorer line of units (water mvt);
- Maybe make mounted units move better in water;***
- Indian mounted unit;***
- Redesign Mad Gunner/Trigger Happy (weapon special: empty it's clip before any enemy attack? Oil Barrel?)
- Sprites for the whole faction;

Robots:
- Tunnel (Teleport /w disabled next to enemy);
- Maybe nerf the Keeper/Sentinel's HPs;
- Killing with oil's fire doesn't give XP;

Triffids:
- Sprites for the whole faction;
- Balance
- Charm doesn't give move/attack if stunned;
- Fix bugs in all new specials.

You guys have anything to add to this?

Other random comments:
- I guess Knockback just interrupting combat could be a good alternative, instead of sending units flying. It could also fix some issues (like not working with targets on villages) and stuff. I guess I'd just get to merge knockback and retreat into a single, new special (since without the actual unit moving, they're the same). What new name would you suggest? Interrupt? Break? Stun (if we changed/removed the triffid special with the same name)?
- Scavies... I thought they were already pretty weak and had very little fire power. You really feel like they should be nerfed further? Perhaps. I guess fog's alternative about decreasing HPs could work, though.
- I myself didn't have too much of a problem with feeding, it is mostly a decorative ability, but I understand your point. I'm not very fond of fog's alternative, though. Maybe we could mix the two ideas, however: when any adjacent mechanical unit dies, it gets +1 max HP?

By the way, I officially state I am a guy, therefore you can refer to me as "he" in the future (no offense taken);
I have no objection per se about you including IME in your era, fog, but I don't feel like the whole thing is near being ready enough for it. Anyway, do it if you want to, I won't stop you

[fog_of_gold]

[...]Lately, I've also been wondering about the whole point of doing eras. Not much people play 'em at all, if not in survivals and other such stuff. Unless there's some project for campaigns and stuff down the road... I've been questionning the whole point of those a bit in the past weeks.[...]

This is pretty easy to answer: Yes, it's true, there aren't really much people playing this era. There even aren't playing the that-well downloaded EOMa, but the big reason is, that all these eras are pretty not balanced. Looking at the really often played (at least I do; I don't care about others) EOM, you'll see, that this is the only finished era having a balance is about equal to the mainline. So yes, it is quite a lot of work, but when(better: if) we finish this era, other would properly be more likly to play this era.

- I guess Knockback just interrupting combat could be a good alternative, instead of sending units flying. It could also fix some issues (like not working with targets on villages) and stuff. I guess I'd just get to merge knockback and retreat into a single, new special (since without the actual unit moving, they're the same). What new name would you suggest? Interrupt? Break? Stun (if we changed/removed the triffid special with the same name)?

Why do you want to change the name? You need to imagine: Two hexes are a that big area, it makes no different if you fight on melee or range. And do you really think, a horse can make units and even drakes fly hunderts metres/feets away just like an arrow? Another point: A usual human is easily able to walk 5km/h / 3mi/h / 5 hexes. One day has 6 rounds and a round is therefore 4 hours long. You can walk in this time 20km/12mi. It makes per hex 4km/2,4mi.

- Scavies... I thought they were already pretty weak and had very little fire power. You really feel like they should be nerfed further? Perhaps. I guess fog's alternative about decreasing HPs could work, though.

Firepower isn't a unit's only worth. You can do damage with other units as well, but these cheap - very often even free - tanks you can't kill that easy because of dazzle and up to 70% defence(making the enemy have to attack nearly as hard as a wose outside forest). I really think it is a good idea to decrease the hitpoints, but they are more or less balanced. Decreasing the hitpoints to 15 or 14 or such, is, in my opinion, pretty enough.

- I myself didn't have too much of a problem with feeding, it is mostly a decorative ability, but I understand your point. I'm not very fond of fog's alternative, though. Maybe we could mix the two ideas, however: when any adjacent mechanical unit dies, it gets +1 max HP?

Sorry, my text was meant say that.

By the way, I officially state I am a guy, therefore you can refer to me as "he" in the future (no offense taken);
I have no objection per se about you including IME in your era, fog, but I don't feel like the whole thing is near being ready enough for it. Anyway, do it if you want to, I won't stop you

If this era isn't finished, this era won't be downloaded and therefore be playable. This is the reason I do not care about how finished an era is. But thanks.
edit: I fogot to tell: I'd need this era on the 1.9 server to include and this is anyway the reason I wait.

[lindsay40k]

Re knockback. Renaming it to 'stun' gets my vote. I'd quite like to see this effect used for 'shield' type attacks, actually - it fits better than giving loads of brawler types in various eras having Slow.

Re Scavengers. I actually feel the unit's about right as it is. It seems to die pretty easily when I play against robots. I'm just reporting that my regular opponents/playtesters don't agree, and posing the question of how others feel about it.

Re factions appearing in other eras. I have no problem with my unit art being used by others with attribution to myself; I only ask that unfinished beta art - such as what I've produced so far - gets replaced whenever I update the line. Which I am still working on; currently I'm trying to redraw the tracks at an angle that matches the hooves of horse units, with slow progress...

[fog_of_gold]

Re knockback. Renaming it to 'stun' gets my vote. I'd quite like to see this effect used for 'shield' type attacks, actually - it fits better than giving loads of brawler types in various eras having Slow.[...]

I disvote 'stun' because it's used in mainline, too (UtBS).

I have no problem with my unit art being used by others with attribution to myself[...]

And this is now the question: Do you call my sort of era 'using your era'? In the agelesss era, I understand you want to be mentioned, but in this, too? Only to be sure you understood (since lots of people I asked didn't), you can't play or even see this era's factions without having downloaded it. If you still want to be mentioned, just repeat what you said; I do not expect an explanation.

[Dixie]

Ok people, I had a bit of time tonight, so I did a few overdue fixes to the era and published version 0.0.7. Changes include:

- The flaming damage from oil attacks should now give experience in case of a kill.
- "Interrupt" weapon special, which basically replaces Knockback and Retreat and only stops combat without moving units around (or even if there is an obstacle behind the target/regardless of villages). So now it behaves differently, and is arguably a bit more powerful.
- Added a few sprites: a mounted cowboy by Aura and three pirates by Kanapka.

So what's really left to do:

Spoiler:

- I have been toying with the idea of replacing the old, more fitting place holders because of the various comments on the sillyness of removing them, but if I ever do it, it won't be tonight.
- Fix the status overlay thing (First need to determine if we keep charm and stun)

Ninjas:
- A flashbomb unit (a level 2 for the Teisatsu that would have a dazzling attack)
- Find a way to incorporate water movement. Maybe the levitating Kusa and ups?

Cowboys:
- Design a trapper/explorer line of units for better water control/scouting.
- Think of a new weapon special for the Mad Gunner / Trigger Happy.
- I'd like to have an oil-barrel (and feathers?) unit in the cowboy faction. Maybe the Mad Gunner/Trigger Happy?

Robots:
- You guys wanted to redesign some stuff with the tanks, ships, scavengers. I don't recall too well, I'm sorry. But that.
- We wanted to replace Teleport with Tunnel, so that it didn't work if target village was adjacent to an enemy unit or something. I'm not sure whether this is possible or not, I'll have to thinker around with it a bit.

Triffids:
- We really wanted to rework some stuff in the unit trees for these guys. I know I have a lot of discouraging debugging to do for the "new" specials and abilities. Are there any specials we didn't plan on including, so that I might just outright remove them? I'm thinking maybe those Possess/Stun...

There are two things I mostly need your help with:
1) Art (but hey, I won,t ask too hard. Some people have contributed stuff, maybe they will keep at it, maybe not, I'm already pretty grateful as is)
2) Design. Some factions I'm really at a loss at, and would gladly hand over the designing to somebody else. It would pretty much encourage me if we could jsut nail the design right once and for all, so that I could code it ad only balance would be left (and art and bug fixes, but hey). If you are still into it, lindsay, I'd leave the robot design to you. Sure, we can brainstorm ideas together, and I'll still keep a last resort veto for really crazy, way over the top stuff (like having a tank with a 300-99 attack), but, yeah... Ninjas and pirates are mostly there (save for the previously mentionned points), cowboys are near having a final design, robots, I don't really know, and triffids need a lot mroe love...

Anyway, so I'll be uploading the new version on the first post, and I'll try to update the unit trees sometime soon (although it would be better if we had final trees before I redo them an Nth time).

[Drakefriend]

Well, back to the RIPLIB Brainjar/Motherbrain:
Maybe make him a cyborg dwarf enough to use their movement but that much a robot he rekais more on his implants?

[fog_of_gold]

[...]
- We wanted to replace Teleport with Tunnel, so that it didn't work if target village was adjacent to an enemy unit or something. I'm not sure whether this is possible or not, I'll have to thinker around with it a bit.[...]

It's properly good to find an alternative solution; especially because of the new whiteboard system making it properly impossible doing that.

Triffids:
- We really wanted to rework some stuff in the unit trees for these guys. I know I have a lot of discouraging debugging to do for the "new" specials and abilities. Are there any specials we didn't plan on including, so that I might just outright remove them? I'm thinking maybe those Possess/Stun...

I think you should better ask which abilities are wanted. To be true, I do not remember which abilities where bad, but I remember the good ones:
-charm
-pollinate
-unity
-drainheal
-burrow
The rest of the abilities should, in my opinion, be deleted.
And there is now the question if we want a specials faction or a cheap spaming faction.

[Dixie]

Ok, so this morning, I have fixed Drain-Heal and Charm. Unity I think worked fine (though I'll have to recheck it), Pollinate I redid simply, using the plague special, but have yet to test it. Burrow, of course, works.

I have also made a variant of regenerates to cheapen the beech a bit: it should only work at day, now (called it Photosynthesis).

There was also the following abilities/specials:
- Infect, Stun and mindflay, which might pretty well get kicked out.
- Pacify, which was a sort of reverse-leadership. I might keep it somewhere.
- Reproduce, which was to ability to create sprouts. I might keep it? I dunno.
- Entangle (and constrict), which allowed a bunch of successive strikes. It was nice and got used a lot, but maybe it's overpowered, especially for a spamming faction... If I butt it out, we'll have to think of a new unit line to patch the hole it'll create.

Also, the tunnel ability should now be doable in 1.9, since the Teleport ability will let us filter the source and target hexes through a [tunnel] tag. I have not really tried the whiteboard feature, so I'm not sure how it'd mess with this feature. Do you still think we should think of something else?

[fog_of_gold]

I have also made a variant of regenerates to cheapen the beech a bit: it should only work at day, now (called it Photosynthesis).

What do you do with dawn and dusk? Do you disallow or give the half regenerate?

- Infect, Stun and mindflay, which might pretty well get kicked out.

Do that.

- Pacify, which was a sort of reverse-leadership. I might keep it somewhere.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea. It will lead you to get more defencish by enduring less damage. Also, the less specials you have, the less your units may cost.

- Reproduce, which was to ability to create sprouts. I might keep it? I dunno.

I really suggest you to drop this. It will be just too strong and unKISS; especially if you still keep the grow ability.

- Entangle (and constrict), which allowed a bunch of successive strikes. It was nice and got used a lot, but maybe it's overpowered, especially for a spamming faction... If I butt it out, we'll have to think of a new unit line to patch the hole it'll create.

I do not think it would create a hole, but if you think it would destroy the use of the user of entagle, you could give him a weapon with the two weapon specials slow and beserk instead. It could be interesting.

Also, the tunnel ability should now be doable in 1.9, since the Teleport ability will let us filter the source and target hexes through a [tunnel] tag. I have not really tried the whiteboard feature, so I'm not sure how it'd mess with this feature. Do you still think we should think of something else?

This is wonderful. I didn't know this tag and it will work since else, it would be a bug of the WB feature. And the WB is really not very buggy. However, gabba said on and on, he isn't sure about how it works for events. So what I can only say you, is:
Time to update for 1.9

[Dixie]

I have also made a variant of regenerates to cheapen the beech a bit: it should only work at day, now (called it Photosynthesis).

What do you do with dawn and dusk? Do you disallow or give the half regenerate?

So far I disallowed it, but I guess it -could- be half regenerate and slowing poison (instead of removing it). But I dunno, the point was pretty much to keep that unit wose-like, but cheaper. IIRC the unit was far overpowered for the cost, so I don't think letting no regen at dawn/dusk was tipping the balance too much towards underpowerment.

- Pacify, which was a sort of reverse-leadership. I might keep it somewhere.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea. It will lead you to get more defencish by enduring less damage. Also, the less specials you have, the less your units may cost.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

- Reproduce, which was to ability to create sprouts. I might keep it? I dunno.

I really suggest you to drop this. It will be just too strong and unKISS; especially if you still keep the grow ability.

- Entangle (and constrict), which allowed a bunch of successive strikes. It was nice and got used a lot, but maybe it's overpowered, especially for a spamming faction... If I butt it out, we'll have to think of a new unit line to patch the hole it'll create.

I do not think it would create a hole, but if you think it would destroy the use of the user of entagle, you could give him a weapon with the two weapon specials slow and beserk instead. It could be interesting.

I guess we should rethink some units. I'm not forcibly against changing entangle to something else. The slow + berzerk combo seems interesting. The unit was supposed to be the village clearer, though, with 60% cth, but I fear this might be too strong with slow and berzerk. Maybe the faction can go by without a precision unit, though, or maybe it could be a level up option? What do you think?

Also, there's another point we need to clear. Back then, we were discussing that unit that had both pollinate AND charm (and a bunch of other stuff that will get cleared). What's your opinion on this, still divide it, or just let it be now that some of its power are getting removed?

I will work on all that when I get a bit of time (tomorrow morning, likely), and work on releasing it for 1.9. There shouldn't be too much adaptation needed, I think. I will try to think about that flashbomb ninja unit (with dazzling attack) which would be a different Lv2 to the Teisatsu, and about that cowboy woodman explorer scout unit thing. Ah, what's your opinion on the Mad Gunner, btw? Do you think the oil barrel should be another unit and it gets another special, like doing all of his attacks before the opponent as a chance to shoot, or maybe a no-retaliation special? Merge that with the oil barrel? I'll be thinking 'bout all that, in any event... It would also be nice to have some diferenciation between the Canadian Mounted Police, the Brigadier and the Raider. Suggestions welcome.

btw @ Drakefriend: Personnally, the RIPLIB dwarven leader doesn't bother me much, I would trade the dwarven movetype for a Lv5 leader anytime. You will rarely get there in MP anyway... But I guess there could be two Lv3s: a cyborg that goes to the lv5 leader, and a Lv3 that stays a dwarf, maybe with some other bonus, and is capped there... I will think about it. I'm waiting for lindsay for rework of the bots for now, though...

[fog_of_gold]

[...]
So far I disallowed it, but I guess it -could- be half regenerate and slowing poison (instead of removing it). But I dunno, the point was pretty much to keep that unit wose-like, but cheaper. IIRC the unit was far overpowered for the cost, so I don't think letting no regen at dawn/dusk was tipping the balance too much towards underpowerment.

I think we should first see how it works. However, I think you'd really like to have transition at least in dusk because there's the time you try to start retreating.

[...]I guess we should rethink some units. I'm not forcibly against changing entangle to something else. The slow + berzerk combo seems interesting. The unit was supposed to be the village clearer, though, with 60% cth, but I fear this might be too strong with slow and berzerk. Maybe the faction can go by without a precision unit, though, or maybe it could be a level up option? What do you think?

I do not think the combo would get too strong. Believing my formula, you "only" need to half the ulfserker's damage. However, I'm not sure if you'd use other attacks and if you do, this unit should really do very less damage on the combo attack. Depending on the cost, I can think of attacks like 2-3.

Also, there's another point we need to clear. Back then, we were discussing that unit that had both pollinate AND charm (and a bunch of other stuff that will get cleared). What's your opinion on this, still divide it, or just let it be now that some of its power are getting removed?

My opinion is still you need to divide it. It is not only the dual role thing, also, it will be a lot of harder to balance it since two abilities are hard to master and therefore hard to understand its power. Maybe we can undo this decision later, but for now, we should divide this unit.

Ah, what's your opinion on the Mad Gunner, btw? Do you think the oil barrel should be another unit and it gets another special, like doing all of his attacks before the opponent as a chance to shoot, or maybe a no-retaliation special? Merge that with the oil barrel? I'll be thinking 'bout all that, in any event... It would also be nice to have some diferenciation between the Canadian Mounted Police, the Brigadier and the Raider. Suggestions welcome.

I do not think any other specials would fit to the Mad Gunner. However, he'd could have one more move and a little bit more damage/strikes. For the police, raider and Brigadier, the raider could have chaotic, the brigadier could have leadership and the police could have half leadership.

BTW, your slave ability isn't working. It won't end producing slaves.
Also, you made a delay time of 1000 for scrolling from unit to another. I tested it with 100 and it feels a lot of more enjoyable. You can still overwatch the number of units are doing special but you do not waste time in minutes of watching a screen. Also, in hotseat it makes problems to use side turn. It's better to use turn refresh.

[Dixie]

I will reduce the delay for the various abilities and specials.

I might also just remove the slave thing altogether, it doesn't really feel KISS and wesnothish to me... I don't know if I should keep the unit and give it another role, or just scrap it completely.

In fact, and sorry if it wasn't clear enough, the whole thing about the Mad Gunner is that I didn't really like him to have Swarm. It made relatively little sense and is generally an handicap. The Gun Slinger typically has more weaker strikes with Marksman, the Sheriff has a rifle, so less stronger strikes, and I really needed something special to justify the Mad Gunner. Empty its clip at the beginning of the round? Other options include : Berzerk (nah, too many berzerks around, although it could be interesting on range, but it's especially nasty. Unless it was only like 5 rounds of berzerk instead of 30-50 like the ulfs), Oil Barrel, make him chaotic, a no-retaliation attack, or mostly anything else one could imagine...

About the berzerk + slow combo: I'm not sure I like it so much anymore. I mean, if we are gonna give him low damage plus slow, why shouldn't we just give him higher damage and let it at that (without slow)? It'll just avoid making the encounter twice as long... Alternative: give him berzerk and a CTH special, plus an event that interrupts combat as soon as it misses a strike? (we are starting to have a lot of berzerks: a Lv2 bot, a pirate, a triffid, maybe a cowboy... not sure I like that) Or just a no-retaliation attack could be cool. (Yeah, I think it'll be that)

About Pollinate + Charm: maybe this is stupid, but I liked how the triffids "had less diversity" (they had only 6 units, while the average is around 7 and some even have 8. But it's also a bit ironic how they had so many diversified specials). Anyway, I would like to keep it at that, with not too many units. So I could separate them, but I would like to just find some other unit that could have pollinate instead of the charmer. I was thinking of maybe that dandelion-scout-thing, since I will remove its mindflay, and possibly its steal too to compensate for the pollinate. It could have a very weak attack, but just be good at finishing some badly hurt units to plague them... What do you think?

I will also do the dusk/dawn thing for Photosynthesis. And that Tunnel ability for the bots. And see if I can port the whole era to 1.9 easily. I'm not sure if I will keep updating the era for 1.8. Maybe if the tunnel thing doesn't cause any disturbing bugs.

So I have somewhat of a good plan in my head for tomorrow morning, I should be able to breeze through a good bit of it. If I have time, I will think about fitting that oil barrel somewhere in the cowboys, about that trapper unit, and about the flashbomb one. But they're low-priority atm.

[fog_of_gold]

[...]I might also just remove the slave thing altogether, it doesn't really feel KISS and wesnothish to me... I don't know if I should keep the unit and give it another role, or just scrap it completely.

I think, since this was its main role, it's a good idea to completely scrap the unit. Better we include later another unit with good ideas.

In fact, and sorry if it wasn't clear enough, the whole thing about the Mad Gunner is that I didn't really like him to have Swarm. It made relatively little sense and is generally an handicap. The Gun Slinger typically has more weaker strikes with Marksman, the Sheriff has a rifle, so less stronger strikes, and I really needed something special to justify the Mad Gunner. Empty its clip at the beginning of the round? Other options include : Berzerk (nah, too many berzerks around, although it could be interesting on range, but it's especially nasty. Unless it was only like 5 rounds of berzerk instead of 30-50 like the ulfs), Oil Barrel, make him chaotic, a no-retaliation attack, or mostly anything else one could imagine...

Why do you want to give him specials? Just remove its specials if you do not like them.

About the berzerk + slow combo: I'm not sure I like it so much anymore. I mean, if we are gonna give him low damage plus slow, why shouldn't we just give him higher damage and let it at that (without slow)? It'll just avoid making the encounter twice as long... Alternative: give him berzerk and a CTH special, plus an event that interrupts combat as soon as it misses a strike? (we are starting to have a lot of berzerks: a Lv2 bot, a pirate, a triffid, maybe a cowboy... not sure I like that) Or just a no-retaliation attack could be cool. (Yeah, I think it'll be that)

The reason to not just double the damage is, that a slow bezerk can be used in many ways: You can use wounded units in good terrain to sacrifice them to slow units, you can attack enemies with uneven number and you shouldn't attack units with good defences. I do not like the CTH combo since 1st, I fear bugs and I think it is unKISS. Also, it's too random. If you have, for example, 6-x with a chance of 80% to hit, there's a chance of about 21% to do 42 damage but also 20% of doing no damage. With 40% liklyness, you'll therefore either kill the unit or do no damage. That's very frustating. The low damage is controlable by having a fast attacking animation. Then, the enemy attacks twince but are about to not attack. That makes it as much as the ulfserker do. Also, if you set down the hitpoints and the cost, you can do a very precision unit doing a lot of damage but being very frail.

About Pollinate + Charm: maybe this is stupid, but I liked how the triffids "had less diversity" (they had only 6 units, while the average is around 7 and some even have 8. But it's also a bit ironic how they had so many diversified specials). Anyway, I would like to keep it at that, with not too many units. So I could separate them, but I would like to just find some other unit that could have pollinate instead of the charmer. I was thinking of maybe that dandelion-scout-thing, since I will remove its mindflay, and possibly its steal too to compensate for the pollinate. It could have a very weak attack, but just be good at finishing some badly hurt units to plague them... What do you think?

I think the dandelion scout should be as special-less and therefore cheap as possible. So no, do not give this special to him. I suggest you to include charm to an lvl2 unit. It needn't be in a lvl1 unit and it might be overpowered anyway.

[Dixie]

So just a quick heads up. I've tackled most of what I said I would. Reworked the unit trees a bit, etc. Balance is of course totally off, I used little caution with the numbers I entered, so I'll have to re-do the excel sheet from scratch and re-check everything. But at least the frame should be about set.

I did as you told me: Charm is only a lv2 special now, dandelion is special-less. For the root, however, I made a no-retaliation special, combined with the Relentless one (you know, the drill thing, if a strike hits, all remaining strikes hit). I flushed the slaves and slavers, I added an oil barrel unit and did the trapper line, modified that ninja unit so it has mobility over water and added the flashbomb one too. For the Mad Gunner, I decided he would have a 5-round berserk with a max 50% cth special on his ranged attack. I -could- have made him special-less, but he would've had little point, in that case, next to the Law Enforcer and Duelist. Strong attack and little HPs could be an alternative, however, we'll see how it develops. I also modified Dazzle a bit so that it is removed when the target ends its turn, like slow does, instead of after a whole turn. This is doable with a new event handler from 1.9, side turn end. I also did the tunnel thing. I couldn't really test those, however, since I encounter a weird crash when trying to create Local Multiplayer Games with 1.9.1. I was just extra careful and double-checked a bit more for the time being.

As of now, I am redoing the unit trees, but I gotta go soon, so I will likely finish tomorrow. Should update by monday at the latest, at least on the forums if nowhere else (depends if I have any luck with 1.9 on the update department).

Edit: I forgot: I would maybe like to lower the Wagon/Caravan's MPs a bit and give them more of a support role than just a uber scouting one. Heal is the first that comes to mind, but I'd prefer to refrain from using that one, for flavour. I was thinking maybe something like increasing resistance or defense of adjacent units, on account of how in far west movies you often have the classic indian troup circling around a circle of caravans serving as cover for a bunch of cowboys. Another possibility could be boosting non-mounted adjacent cowboys' MPs if adjacent at the beginning of the side's turn... What do you think?

[fog_of_gold]

So just a quick heads up. I've tackled most of what I said I would. Reworked the unit trees a bit, etc. Balance is of course totally off, I used little caution with the numbers I entered, so I'll have to re-do the excel sheet from scratch and re-check everything. But at least the frame should be about set.

Before you do that, keep in mind my formula completly changed and is now more reasoned. I'm going to open a new threat of it.

[...]For the root, however, I made a no-retaliation special, combined with the Relentless one (you know, the drill thing, if a strike hits, all remaining strikes hit).

I don't this idea but it's better than nothing. We need to think about that and rethink the whole thing. I think, however, there's chance of getting a wonderful combo orienting on the entangle attack idea.

[...]For the Mad Gunner, I decided he would have a 5-round berserk with a max 50% cth special on his ranged attack.

I feel it's a little bit unwesnothish. I'd more suggest 40% especially because you rarly meet 50% defence.

Edit: I forgot: I would maybe like to lower the Wagon/Caravan's MPs a bit and give them more of a support role than just a uber scouting one. Heal is the first that comes to mind, but I'd prefer to refrain from using that one, for flavour. I was thinking maybe something like increasing resistance or defense of adjacent units, on account of how in far west movies you often have the classic indian troup circling around a circle of caravans serving as cover for a bunch of cowboys. Another possibility could be boosting non-mounted adjacent cowboys' MPs if adjacent at the beginning of the side's turn... What do you think?

The idea of givving MP is a pretty interesting one. I think it is good useable with healing. I hate the idea of increasing resistence or defence of adjacent units, though I've no idea why.