Internet Meme Era v 0.0.8

[fog_of_gold]

Just a question:
Why does every robot expect the usual one have 30% arcane resistence? Is it intentional to be so?

[Dixie]

What usual one? Did I miss a robot? About the 30% resist, that's something we had talked about...

By the way, since I'm here, I just wanna tell you: the project is not dead, far from it, but I'm tking a little break - we can still continue discussing in the meantime. I had too much WML to do with both Paintball Era and Internet Meme, so I rushed Paintball Era and published an arguably more or less complete version, so now I can concentrate more on IME. But I've had about no life for like two weeks and I'm a bit fed up, so break I'm writing some music I've been meaning to for a while, atm. I'm sorry for any inconvenience it might be to you, but huh... well, I'm a sprinter kinda guy, anyway: feel like doing something, do it exclusively and intensively for a period of time, tire, feel like doing something else, repeat. Should be about a week or two

[fog_of_gold]

What usual one? Did I miss a robot? About the 30% resist, that's something we had talked about...[...]

Yes, I know. I respect it if you've chosen only special units to have this, but I thought every robot is meant to have that. Every movementtype expect robotfoot and tankfoot have 70 arcane resistence. The mentioned ones have 100.

By the way, I am still working at the excel calculations, but I hate the imagination you didn't understand what I did so I'm trying to make it that well recorded and that easy to include you are able to understand what I did, how I did and how to use every needed cell for every possible unit.

[Dixie]

Oh!... Well I'm sorry, it was an error, and I just corrected it. By the way, I decided to upload the current version (with triffids) so that you can check them a bit if you feel like it. I've released v0.0.6a on the add-on server and also updated the zip file on the first post.

About your excel sheet: while I understood the general idea of your calculations, I must admit I was a bit overwhelmed by the excel sheet and its use Well anyway, thanks for your work on this

[Gwynnedrion]

Doing a great job, but the log still shows the old Ninja sprites instead of the new. This might detract people who'll want to download the era.

[fog_of_gold]

The triffids are very buggy...
1) grow doesn't work
2) mind flay can make you have -xx experience
3) charmed units won't be changed back
4) pollinate will make the enemy advance sometimes and at least die [There's the question why you didn't used plague anyway]
5) entangle needs a lot of time to be activated and won't show animations [But I think you know it, don't you?]
6) drain-heal will heal every unit on the map


... and unbalanced:
1) the Pappus is really too strong: It have 8 moves [as much as the bat have], costs 12 gold [less than the bat have] and can steal and do mind flays. The bat is only able to do 4-2 damage and therefore steel 2-2 hitpoints. These hitpoints are even less than the steeled gold (gold will also be decreased, hitpoints won't since it is already by the damage).

2) the Malefic Beech is, even if we compare the the Pappus, too strong: It have half moves but more than +200% hitpoints, more damage, ambush and regenerate. And that all for just one gold more.

3) the sun pitcher:
Without the specials, it is a very little bit weaker than the spearman, but it also have unity and drain-heal. Following my sort of formula, drain-heal will multiply the damage with (1/3)+(1/3)*5*100%/2=2 so it'll double the damage.

Fortunatly, I am able to get the sun pitcher in my formula, but I'd need the average power of the triffids since I'm not able to get the power of unity. And since there are that much triffids I can't get because of the specials, I can't get a serious result. Maybe I am able to include unity, but for that, I'd need more thinking.

Edit:
I finished the descriptions and the calculations:

[Dixie]

Hmmm.. Yeah, I know the triffids still need some love. A lot of your comments I'm aware of. Like, mindflay going in the -xx (I wasn,t sure if I was gonna keep it that way or not, actually) or entangle being misleading (I tried to animate it at first, but it caused errors)

In general, I think I will have to flush some abilities and specials. I liked the idea of a lot of them, but since I want the faction to be primarily cheap spam, it prevents us from making them too specialised. The beech, I wanted to be reminiscent of the wose, and I based myself mostly on the troll to make. It does have much better resists, though, but also some key weaknesses, so I wasn't sure.

Thanks for your report and for your excel sheet, too, it has very interesting results and is very well explained

[fog_of_gold]

[...]In general, I think I will have to flush some abilities and specials. I liked the idea of a lot of them, but since I want the faction to be primarily cheap spam, it prevents us from making them too specialised. The beech, I wanted to be reminiscent of the wose, and I based myself mostly on the troll to make. It does have much better resists, though, but also some key weaknesses, so I wasn't sure.[...]

These abilities and specials are, indeed, very interesting. But like you hinted, you need to decide: Do you want to have specials and abilities or do you want to have a cheap spaming faction? You can't have both. This could be something, you could think about in your break you made you have, if there's coming a time you need to do something for era. For the beech, I understood the differents between the bat and this: The bat is lvl0 having no upkeep and giving no experience for fighting expect for killing. I'd need to include upkeep in my formulas, I think. I'll edit my post for that.

edit: Here's the corrected excel sheet[edit2: I also changed extract making it stronger it was calculated]:

[Drakefriend]

I fear the triffid abilities are very heavily bugged, at least Éntangle and Drain Heals:
Drain Heals heals all units on the map. Whenever that happens, there is a message:

<Invalid WML found> Filter (2) missing.

Entangle leads to the damage inflicted by the attack being done again, and if the target is killed by this extra damage, the unit only gets the experience only for the fight, not for the killing.

Madprof>Brainjar is a RIPLIB advacement, as he loses some terrain bonusses and some resistance. I suggest adding another option for level 4 that remains a dwarf. For his name: Maybe rename "Madprof" to "Boffin" and name the new advancement "Mad Scientist".

[lindsay40k]

Madprof>Brainjar is a RIPLIB advacement, as he loses some terrain bonusses and some resistance.

But... he also gains the 'float' movetype, and loses all mortal vulnerabilities - poison, drain, plague, feeding. Which is fairly significant when he's one of a few units in a faction vulnerable to - and thus a major target for - poison units.

Incidentally, Dixie, any thoughts on the oil/fire issue? If the damage bonus is enough to kill the oiled unit, the unit gets removed from play with no XP bonus for the attacker. That doesn't sit right with me.

[Dixie]

Yeah, hm. I know the mad prof thing is somehow riplib, but... I don't really want an alternate Lv4 for the mad prof. It's not really like the lich, anyway: the lich also gains some major weaknesses, whereas the mad prof not really all that much. Sure, he looses some mobility on hills, but he gains that much more, and anyway it's really only useful along with robots, which don't share its hill mobility, so...

About the fire/oil issue, it is on my to do, but I haven't got to check it yet. I should really do a bug correction rush before the school year begins in like 2 weeks, but I'm kinda getting myself back on some other stuff... I'll try and put some more work on the era in the upcoming two weeks.

Good to see you, btw, I was sure you were a goner

[Aura]

Cowboy graphic here. Maybe you can make use of it.

[dipseydoodle]

Speaking of cowboys... Dixie I have not forgotten about them... I feel really sorry and am triying to make up for lost work.

[lindsay40k]

Hey, long time no update. Presently I'm tinkering with a redesign of the robots, which is proceeding very slowly as I try to get a better defined tracks graphic. Some thoughts have come to mind during playtesting with friends:

- Multiple 'knockback' strikes are proving extremely effective, open to abuse, and not particularly WYSIWYG*. A suggestion was put to me that maybe the Tank and Keeper would be more manageable if they were pushed down to a single strike; I think it's worth considering going farther and changing 'knockback' to either 'slows' (to bring it in line with the 'shield' attacks in numerous non-default eras) or simply ending the round of combat if it strikes. The present ability for several Knockback units to 'baton pass' an enemy unit all over the place makes them highly open to abuse.

- My regular opponents regard the Scavenger line as too easy to level up and too cheap for something boasting a normally lv4 ability to recoup cost of production. In particular, they are concerned that its defences are too high. I think we can grant that given it has the same movement ability as an Orc Assassin, except that it is faster on Sand and can traverse Deep Water, an argument can be made that its defence is high on account of being able to hide well in cover.

With this in mind, perhaps we can reduce its defence in Flats, to represent the difficulty in finding cover in the open. Furthermore, I think the Forager should have several defences reduced, including in Caves, to represent that great big light bulb reducing its ability to hide (and reflect that it now has more of a supporting role). To compensate, I suggest increasing the strength of its melee attacks, which are not really WYSIWYG with the big claws it gains on level up.

Finally, I don't like that the Millipede has both Drains and Feeding; I think Feeding should be replaced with a 'Mechanical Feeding' ability, named something like 'Cannibalise', representing that whilst it uses bits of living foes for fuel, it uses bits of constructed foes for spare parts with which to extend itself.

*a term from tabletop wargaming meaning What You See Is What You Get; it means that when you look at a unit, it should be clear what its general capabilities are.

[fog_of_gold]

Hey, long time no update.[...]

It's because (s)he wanted to have a break.

- Multiple 'knockback' strikes are proving extremely effective, open to abuse, and not particularly WYSIWYG*. A suggestion was put to me that maybe the Tank and Keeper would be more manageable if they were pushed down to a single strike; I think it's worth considering going farther and changing 'knockback' to either 'slows' (to bring it in line with the 'shield' attacks in numerous non-default eras) or simply ending the round of combat if it strikes. The present ability for several Knockback units to 'baton pass' an enemy unit all over the place makes them highly open to abuse.

I fail in understanding what you mean in abusing this ability. How can you use this ability isn't meant to do?

- My regular opponents regard the Scavenger line as too easy to level up and too cheap for something boasting a normally lv4 ability to recoup cost of production. In particular, they are concerned that its defences are too high. I think we can grant that given it has the same movement ability as an Orc Assassin, except that it is faster on Sand and can traverse Deep Water, an argument can be made that its defence is high on account of being able to hide well in cover.

With this in mind, perhaps we can reduce its defence in Flats, to represent the difficulty in finding cover in the open. Furthermore, I think the Forager should have several defences reduced, including in Caves, to represent that great big light bulb reducing its ability to hide (and reflect that it now has more of a supporting role). To compensate, I suggest increasing the strength of its melee attacks, which are not really WYSIWYG with the big claws it gains on level up.

The scavernger has a big different to an Orcish Assasin: It hasn't got poison. The poison does, as against all the other abilities the Scavenger has, damage. It can't do other damage and is therefore not easy to level up. But you are properly very right saying this unit surrives too long. It's got more than the most lvl0 units and has of course more defence. Decreasing the defence is, in my opinion, not a such good solution since it makes dazzle stronger it is already. Also, it would decrease the flavour of this unit. What I suggest you, is, to give this unit very low hitpoints; maybe 10 so it'll surrive two attacks. About every second elvish bowman will kill this unit in good terrain covering with the other lvl0 units. Also, if you really think this unit is too easy to level up, let's set its range attack to 2-1.

Finally, I don't like that the Millipede has both Drains and Feeding; I think Feeding should be replaced with a 'Mechanical Feeding' ability, named something like 'Cannibalise', representing that whilst it uses bits of living foes for fuel, it uses bits of constructed foes for spare parts with which to extend itself.[...]

The only problem about it, is, that you wouldn't be really able to use that if you do not play mirror matches. An interesting alternative would be, to give this unit experience by friendly units for example when they are dieing, but that'd properly be too difficult for now, since we have a break.

edit:
I just want to mention: I plan to include your era into my era, so I just want to tell you that. I do not think you do not allow it, since you need to download your era to play it in my era, but I do still: Am I allowed to include your era into my era?