Should mermen be weak to fire?

[Sapient]

This means that, over a long span of turns, the Naga will do more damage than the Merman.

I have taken a course in Prabability and Statistics and I'm going to disagree with you. Let's say you're attacking an elven archer in a forest and you only have a 30% chance to hit it. Then average damage per turn is Merman=((0.3*6)*3)=5.4, and Naga=((0.3*4)*4)=4.8, now let's multiply this by the number of turns. Result: the merman's advantage in average damage (even against this well-defended opponent) becomes more apparent as the number of turns increases.

The other point you neglected is the time factor. During the day, the Merman will kick the Nagas rear for sure. But at night, the Naga's neutrality will ensure it starts stomping the Merman.

So you're saying that neutral units are inherently better than chaotic or lawful units? Hmm... I think I'm going to disagree with you there. They should be equal. If anything, lawful has the advantage because they can be illuminated.

I would say their resistance should vary with terrain they occupy.

Not a bad idea, but the developers would probably shake their heads.

[(S)elfish weirdo]

The main Naga advantage is of course the lower xp requirement; it often makes naga level after one kill less than mermen - this is very cruicial in the war of attrition sea battle usually become.
And then there's the speed, being able to surrond an enemy with many units before it can retreat is often vital to breaking the enemy lines.
Personally, I find naga to be the most useful of the normal sea units due to their easyness to level, I'd like to see their cost upped by one as well.
I also find hunters the weakest (even if only slightly so, they are all fairly balanced); sure they have the highest all around damage, but they have the least hit points and thus capability to hold crucial points as well as the smallest maximum damage without resistances or leadership (6-3 as opposed to naga 5-4 or fighter 9-3) - this makes it very hard for them to break enemy formations as the enemy will just rotate out the wounded and they will almost never be able to kill in one turn.

[Sapient]

I totally agree with you Weirdo, the movement and XP is a good tradeoff for damage and HP.

However, when you realize that the naga has a -20% cold weakness while the merman gets 60% cold resistance (and no corresponding fire weakness), that suggests to me a tweak is in order.

[ozymandias]

Actually, I think it's rather nice that not every unit that is resistant to cold is vulnerable to fire and vice versa. We have drakes and undead for that, and the variation keeps it interesting. It's justifiable, too - I imagine merfolk having lots of body fat to keep them moving in cold water, like seals, which would protect them from cold attacks, too. Nagas could well be cold-blooded, leaving defenseless against chilling.

Balance-wise, merfolk have better resistances, but Nagas make it up with versatility, speed, and low XP requirements. No need to mess with that.

[Ranger M]

True but Mermen have so many different types of unit, but I only know of two different naga units, although I hardly ever see the old nagas and sea hags anymore. Shouldn't someone be making more out there at some point?

[ozymandias]

I think jetryl has some long-term plans for more naga units. Healers if poison, if I remember correctly... should be somewhere in the forums if you search for it...

[Sapient]

Actually, I think it's rather nice that not every unit that is resistant to cold is vulnerable to fire and vice versa.

Have you ever owned an aquarium before? I have. The fish will go into a state of shock (i.e. turn belly up) if the water is too hot. Then again, we're talking about "mermen" here, so realism sort of flies out the window.

I think the original justification for giving mermen cold resistance must have been that they are accustomed to swimming in very cold water, and have developed a strong immunity to coldness. (By this reasoning, Nagas must like warm water.)

Now you take someone that is very used to being cold all the time and strike the upper portions of their body with a fireball. I think you see where I am going with this.

Balance-wise, merfolk have better resistances, but Nagas make it up with versatility, speed, and low XP requirements. No need to mess with that.

Ok, first of all, versatility? This is a race that has no ranged attack and a fixed progression. Merman hunters on the other hand are one of the few "mixed fighters" out there (the very definition of versatility).

Second, if speed and XP are reasonable trade-offs for lower damage and HP, then there would need to be an additional justification for a huge resistances gap.

[scott]

Mermen are soon losing most of their cold resistance.

Naga are versatile because they can fight on many terrains.

[Tux2B]

Mermen are soon losing most of their cold resistance.

Why is that? As they live in water, they are used to cold, no?

[scott]

If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus.

[Sea Elf]

Why would fire damage water units? I mean they are constantly soaked in water and not one bit of them is dry.
If anything they should have a resistence to fire same with nagas

[RedLTeut]

The "being soaked in water" thing already makes them hard to hit on water.

Being completely unused to fire, they take a lot of damage if they encounter it.

[Sapient]

The "being soaked in water" thing already makes them hard to hit on water.

Being completely unused to fire, they take a lot of damage if they encounter it.

I couldn't have put it better myself, RedL. Glad someone agrees with me.

[Noyga]

Well most units are usualy unused to holy damages, but this doesn't give them negative resistances...

[Sapient]

Well most units are usualy unused to holy damages, but this doesn't give them negative resistances...

Where does holy resistance come from? Judging by the pattern of the game, beings such as animals and humans are composed in part by holy energy, thus it does them little harm. Conversely, undead are animated by a malevolence, so they are especially vulnerable.

So I wouldn't say most wesnoth humans are "unused to holy," they just don't understand its nature within them.