The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Jozrael
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Jozrael »

Read up like...four posts.
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ArtillaryGoat
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by ArtillaryGoat »

TheChosenOne wrote:This map seems to be smaller than usual IMHO...are you sure you're not playing a user-modified version of Isar?
The image posted IS the correct and official one. I am wondering why it seems smaller to me.

My guess is that it was simply changed some versions ago without me noticing it.
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woodmouse
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by woodmouse »

Hmm... I think it's bigger in 1.4.3 than in 1.4.4? At least I think it maybe is... But I think that would be weird. :lol2:
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ArtillaryGoat
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by ArtillaryGoat »

I had considered that but the 1.4.x Changelog says that only Cyansaun Battlefield has been revised the 1.4 branch, and that was in 1.4.0
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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Three of the latest updates:

-Hornshark Island (general finetuning, slight decrease in player 2 early offensive power)

-Hamlets (very minor, mostly aesthetic changes)

-The Freelands (massive changes that aim to power down drakes a little, enhance Knalgans defensive movement, aid Undead in general, etc. etc. I've spent a lot of time discussing this one on the server, but if anyone has any questions, we can discuss here, too. :) )
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Doc Paterson
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Doc Paterson »

Some more revisions to Fallenstar Lake.

Again, I've already had a lot of server discussions about these, but if anyone here has any questions, I'll answer whenever I get the chance.

:)
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I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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Fosprey
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Fosprey »

Hi docs, thanks for the updates it's nice to see you keep working in making the maps better for 1v1 default.

I wanted to note that weldyn channel is one of the most played maps, and it's mostly for asthetic and nostalgic reasons, and i think is a map with several flaws where side 1 has a nice advantage and i would like to see an updated version.
Jozrael
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Jozrael »

How does P1 have an advantage 2_@? There's no 'good terrain'/villages/keeps he can reach before P2 can =o.
Fosprey
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Fosprey »

P1 don't have pressure on the first turns, p2 does, p1 can rush , p2 do not.
Jozrael
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Jozrael »

If P1 rushes, P2 will crush him. P1 has too few units to make a good attack, thus P2's leader is a huge influence on any assault on P2's turf. And if P1 brings along his leader, he's making a foolishly [censored] gamble. It'll take him at least 6 turns to get back if the attack fails (which it almost assuredly will) and all along P2 can keep recruiting.

P1 would have to do enough damage in his attack that he either gained P2's keep or kill enough units to offset the gold disadvantage he'd have from going all on one side, leaving the rest of the map open to P2's villagestealer(s).

I've never seen a rush work on Weldyn Channel that wasn't the defenders fault (I've been a victim of it twice, but that was because I was foolish with my leader :|).
Fosprey
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Fosprey »

Of course player 2 if WANT to stop a rush will stop it.
But you must build and make units in accordance to stopping the rush, P1 doesn't have that problem it can make everthing flow as he wants. player 2 MUST cover the village on east on second turn or lose the game against a rush, and there are a few matches where you don't even have an option.

Say play 1 is loyal and 2 drakes, with loyal you can put the pressure of a horseman by turn 3, and drakes can do nothing to stop it because the only unit that will reach that village by then is the glider, good luck in the glider vs horseman.
Basically you are forced to bring a scout by turn 2 or lose the game, and probably bring more untis to defend quickly, but it's a problem since most of your units will be on the other side, since that's where there are the villages. Of course if you know he will try that you will stop it, but that will not hinder him, just from there on the game will be go on as normal, so player 1 lose nothing from putting that pressure, BUT he can choose to win a few extra golds playing in diffrent ways but player 2 MUST play in a defense for the east rush or risk to lose the game.

Addiotnally, channel is the map i see matches to stall more than any other map, specially when knalgans are involved.
Jozrael
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Jozrael »

Um...no.

Turn 1: p1 recruits horsemen.
Turn 1: P2 recruits whatever the heck he wants.
Turn 2: It takes the bottom left village of P1s villages
Turn 2: P2 takes whatever villages he wants, probably not his top left one.
Turn 3: If P1 moves his horse on to P2's top left village
Turn 3: P2 annihilates said horseman which is there without backup. A: its about to become night (better for drakes than loyals) and B: the rest of P1s units will arrive in 1-2 turns.
AI
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by AI »

Doc Paterson wrote:Three of the latest updates:

-Hornshark Island (general finetuning, slight decrease in player 2 early offensive power)

-Hamlets (very minor, mostly aesthetic changes)

-The Freelands (massive changes that aim to power down drakes a little, enhance Knalgans defensive movement, aid Undead in general, etc. etc. I've spent a lot of time discussing this one on the server, but if anyone has any questions, we can discuss here, too. :) )
Bit late, but please do, I'm currently watching a replay on the new version of the map.
Zlodzei
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by Zlodzei »

Fosprey wrote:Um...no.
Say play 1 is loyal and 2 drakes, with loyal you can put the pressure of a horseman by turn 3, and drakes can do nothing to stop it because the only unit that will reach that village by then is the glider, good luck in the glider vs horseman.
In spite I find pretty laughable Fosprey's sample (attacking glider with horseman would mean 36% to kill 16 gold unit at cost of loosing this horse with greater probability regardless outcome of attack) he has 1 valid point: Unless p2 knows what faction he faces he is forced to direct 1 fodder + 1 scout east direction whilst p1 can afford to buy 1 scout for west and send the rest in eastern direction. This can cause problems for players who are addicted to ridiculously aggressive style with first night attacks (me for instance :P).
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grrr
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Re: The Multiplayer Map Reader's Digest

Post by grrr »

Zlodzei wrote: Unless p2 knows what faction he faces he is forced to direct 1 fodder + 1 scout east direction whilst p1 can afford to buy 1 scout for west and send the rest in eastern direction. This can cause problems for players who are addicted to ridiculously aggressive style with first night attacks (me for instance :P).
It's that part of the "guessing game" I find ultimately frustrating in some 1v1 maps (CotB, Freelands, Weldyn Channel), as P2. Lose unit and/or village(s) because your opponent deviates from splitting his forces? Oh tough luck, you lose. Better luck next time!
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