Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

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meowreka
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Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by meowreka »

Sorry for making another topic, but it's kind of hard to repurpose a topic titled "judge my snow maps" and with a reply about snow maps. This will be my last topic, since any more maps I make will end up in this map pack. If the moderators want to prune the other topics, I have no problems with it.

NEW: I edited Volcanicity. It's amazing now.


Volcanicity:
Image
A re-make of another map I made, "Frosty." This map is meant to be outrageously fun, and... it is. For me anyway. I've played it a few times. I'm glad I made it.

I have further edited this, playtested it quite a bit, and it should work fine. Much better than it was before.


Thrills and Chills:
Image
A 1v1 map that is meant to be balanced and also aesthetically pleasing. It doesn't exactly accomplish it perfectly, but maps can always be improved.


Winter Wonderland:
Image
I wasn't even really trying on this. But I decided a map pack with two maps is dumb, so I threw it in. Yay.

Maps are on the add-on server under the topic title name, or in the zip file attached.
Attachments
maps.zip
(2.63 KiB) Downloaded 145 times
Last edited by meowreka on October 14th, 2009, 2:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sapient
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn)

Post by Sapient »

with the 1v1 map, while I like its look I don't know why you've got midpoint villages placed closer to P1 than P2.
also the bridge near P1 is more defensible, so it looks like a P1 advantage. Factionally, although rebels can dominate the southern path, I'd probably pick undead or knalgan anyways because flying units such as bats, ghosts, and gryphons will help to win the north while mushroom or mountain units such as skeletons and/or dwarves will also dominate the central path.
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meowreka
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn)

Post by meowreka »

I'm pretty much done editing the 1v1 map... I'm more concerned with VOLCANICITY

but thanks for the feedback
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn)

Post by Doc Paterson »

meowreka wrote:I'm pretty much done editing the 1v1 map... I'm more concerned with VOLCANICITY

but thanks for the feedback
If you care about the 1v1 being balanced, you'll have to make massive changes. One of the easier things to fix should be the village layout. as it is, against any good player, you're looking at an 8 (P1) to 4 (P2) village split.
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meowreka
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn)

Post by meowreka »

I realize that map is terribly unbalanced, and I will fix it some day. Right now, though, I'm incredibly... uninspired. If someone else wants to fix it up, they're welcome to. Until then, it's pretty much going to stay a terribly unbalanced map.

I've edited Volcanicity. The changes are extremely noticeable
old image for comparison: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2430/85811697.png

I haven't uploaded the map to the servers or in the zip yet, but I want some critique on it based on its looks
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Caphriel »

You probably shouldn't have any openings to the lava, otherwise you get lulz when the drakes fly out of the combat zone en masse at night, or the drake leader flies out to prevent loss. On the other hand, this mechanic may be necessary, given the way the map is designed, to make the drakes viable at all. I don't think their maneuverability in the center will make up for the fact that they'll have to yield almost every village every night. The dwarves are probably a bit overpowered in the middle, though. Looks like lots of cave, mountain, hills, and a few mushroom groves, and they have one MP over most of the terrain there. But the map has so many glaring imbalances (compare top castle and lower right castle, for instance, or the fact that there's no effective way to defend the villages that are near your starting castle in certain matches) that I'm not sure trying to rework the center is worth the effort.
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by meowreka »

The lava isn't open, it's impassible.

During the day, the drakes will be very powerful. During the night, the same will be true for the undead or northerners. It balances out fairly nicely. You must be a drake player.

Dwarves do have a distinct advantage because they arrive on the scene later than any other faction. They have an expensive scout unit, and most of their units move too slowly to get down there in time to secure villages. They need some sort of advantage to even out the fact that they won't be able to recruit new units until quite a bit after everyone else has already done so.

The center itself has one of almost every terrain type by the villages. I don't see what else there is to complain about in that respect.

Besides all that, any intelligent player would keep the dwarves off the mountains anyway. There's only 3 mountains.
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Doc Paterson »

meowreka wrote:The lava isn't open, it's impassible.
I think that having terrain with hidden properties that contradict their standard function is generally a bad idea. That's not a balance issue of course, but as a player on that map, I'd find it annoying.
meowreka wrote: Dwarves do have a distinct advantage because they arrive on the scene later than any other faction.


How would arriving late on the scene (if that were true) be an advantage?
meowreka wrote: They have an expensive scout unit, and most of their units move too slowly to get down there in time to secure villages.


Hodor would strongly disagree with you.
meowreka wrote: They need some sort of advantage to even out the fact that they won't be able to recruit new units until quite a bit after everyone else has already done so.


I guess you haven't been playing much Default, because all dwarven leaders are 5 mp, just like most other leaders.
meowreka wrote: The center itself has one of almost every terrain type by the villages. I don't see what else there is to complain about in that respect.


An even distribution of different terrain types does not equal balance. It's usually the opposite in fact.
meowreka wrote: Besides all that, any intelligent player would keep the dwarves off the mountains anyway. There's only 3 mountains.
Count again. ;)
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by meowreka »

http://i34.tinypic.com/ztsrht.png

I was referring to that and forgot to post.

No more critique, please, unless it's constructive. Saying "this map is bad, you did this wrong" but not offering up a way to fix the problem makes it seem like nothing more than complaining. And that's what it is. I appreciate the helpful replies, but if this degenerates into "I do not like your map because it does not play exactly how I want it to play" then I'm not sure I want critique at ALL.
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Doc Paterson »

meowreka wrote:http://i34.tinypic.com/ztsrht.png

I was referring to that and forgot to post.

No more critique, please, unless it's constructive. Saying "this map is bad, you did this wrong" but not offering up a way to fix the problem makes it seem like nothing more than complaining. And that's what it is. I appreciate the helpful replies, but if this degenerates into "I do not like your map because it does not play exactly how I want it to play" then I'm not sure I want critique at ALL.
If you're basing your design choices on faulty factional beliefs (the things you seem to believe about Knalgans, for example), it's to your benefit to have someone point it out.

If you care anything at all about balance, this is the time and place to talk about it. If however you are are just posting this so that people can give you compliments, I think you're doing yourself a disservice.

Anyways, I'm done here, so have fun.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Velensk »

What kind of feedback are we supposed to give then?

All of doc's feedback is quite legitimate problems. If you arn't going to try to fix any of them then how is any feedback going to be constructive? Do you really want someone else to come in and rewrite the entire map for you to make it balanced and not have lava that is inexplicable impassable?
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Aethaeryn »

EDIT: Whatever, if you can't take advice I'm stepping out of this thread as well.
Last edited by Aethaeryn on October 14th, 2009, 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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meowreka
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by meowreka »

Nobody is telling me how to correct the problems, only that I got things wrong. It's not constructive. It's not helpful at all.

"If I were you, I'd......." would be better



I realize I'm on the losing end of an argument and if I continue I'll look like (more) of an idiot. I'm not new to the internet. Whether I'm wrong or right, nobody will be willing to see my point of view, so I refuse to carry this on and I want the topic locked.
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by Velensk »

The problem is that they are your concepts and you're the one who has to find them interesting.

If I were to respond "If I were you I would..." the answer would be that I'd scrap it because I don't like the concept. However what you have there may be of use to someone. If you want it to be balanced then you are the one who has to figure out how to make that concept balanced. The best we can do is tell you where the problems are or just work on the map ourselves. However why would we work on your maps if we don't find them especially interesting and have our own ideas we'd rather pursue? This is especially the case when your basic concepts are ones that would be incredibly tricky or near impossible to balance. If we balanced your maps for you it'd invariably come back looking nothing like what you had and probably not like what you wanted.

If you are working off of some other criteria then that makes it even hard to make suggestions too. If we don't know what you want then that makes it hard to makes suggestions to make it better.

EDITED for grammar
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
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Re: Meowreka Map Time (feel the burn) updated Oct 12 2009

Post by meowreka »

I can't make my point any more clear. This isn't an argument. I'm making a fool of myself at this point.

My internet resume is so tarnished right now
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