Loyalist Javelineer Question
Moderator: Forum Moderators
-
- Posts: 205
- Joined: September 15th, 2006, 1:22 pm
Loyalist Javelineer Question
This has maybe been discussed before, but I didn't find it anywhere (sorry if I restart an old discussion).
Is there any reason for not having a lvl3 version of the loyalist Javelineer? I find the Pikeman pretty cool as a melee unit which has at least a weak ranged attack, preventing opponents from getting entirely free ranged attacks on him.
Unfortunately, when levelling, both branches that allow for advancement up to lvl3 loose this property. There still is a nice lvl2 version, the Javelineer, but in campaigns being able to get to lvl3 is worth a lot, so I usually don't choose him.
The same thing happens in other unit lines too, e.g. Lancers, Goblin Pillagers, but I see these more as specialised branches, that go in a different direction than the lvl1 unit. With the Pikeman-line it's just the opposite: It's not possible to get a lvl3 version of the unit originally recruited, which I find a bit odd.
Is there any reason for not having a lvl3 version of the loyalist Javelineer? I find the Pikeman pretty cool as a melee unit which has at least a weak ranged attack, preventing opponents from getting entirely free ranged attacks on him.
Unfortunately, when levelling, both branches that allow for advancement up to lvl3 loose this property. There still is a nice lvl2 version, the Javelineer, but in campaigns being able to get to lvl3 is worth a lot, so I usually don't choose him.
The same thing happens in other unit lines too, e.g. Lancers, Goblin Pillagers, but I see these more as specialised branches, that go in a different direction than the lvl1 unit. With the Pikeman-line it's just the opposite: It's not possible to get a lvl3 version of the unit originally recruited, which I find a bit odd.
-
- Inactive Developer
- Posts: 521
- Joined: October 27th, 2005, 5:30 am
- Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth
A lot of people find it odd, but it works fine as is. If someone came up with some amazing art and unit concepts for the lvl 3 jav perhaps it would be included, but that would take a lot of time. The art for the game has gotten quite time intensive and sophisticated.
Also more units for the sake of more units is bad. I am personally of the opinion that wesnoth needs fewer units not more. And since this is the MP forum I will point out you never see a lvl 3 in MP anyway so who cares.
Also more units for the sake of more units is bad. I am personally of the opinion that wesnoth needs fewer units not more. And since this is the MP forum I will point out you never see a lvl 3 in MP anyway so who cares.
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
-
- Posts: 267
- Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am
Just to add for campaigns: Who would advance units to a pikeman if he could get a level 3 Javelineer. (Same applies to lancers btw.)
The Clan Antagonist.
"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.
"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.
Obviously, if a lvl3 advancement is added for a lvl2 unit, that lvl2 unit would out of necessity in most cases get nerfed a little bit; this much can IMO be assumed without anyone needing to specifically mention it, right? So you can't argue that adding a lvl3 javelineer would overpower the javelineer branch or make it considerably more preferable than the others.
Not necessarily, it depends, on the unit...zookeeper wrote:Obviously, if a lvl3 advancement is added for a lvl2 unit, that lvl2 unit would out of necessity in most cases get nerfed a little bit; this much can IMO be assumed without anyone needing to specifically mention it, right? So you can't argue that adding a lvl3 javelineer would overpower the javelineer branch or make it considerably more preferable than the others.
The problem is also to design (name, background, graphics) a unit that looks natural, distinct enough while it is an evolution of the previous level...
In this particular case i find the good name+background part is probably the most difficult.
Even without L3 advancement, the Javeliner is quite nice as it is : unlinke the two others advancement it has a (quite nice) and still a nice melle attack.
So i feel the it doesn't really need a L3 advancement.
But if someone design (by this, i mean balanced stats + name + background + graphics + ..) a good L3 advancement for it, sure, why not ? But i feel this would be a hard job, to me, for the moment it's a waste of time...
Sure units that don't advance furter than L2 are a little boring in long campaigns, but if it's only for one unit type among a lot of other, i don't see it as a problem.
For me, a wesnoth game is typically about building an army rather than advancing your units (through you're not limited to this way).
"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" -- xtifr
-
- Posts: 1264
- Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
- Location: Following the steps of Goethe
- Contact:
I do the same and I'm nitpicking.
It is nice to have a short route to a powerfull unit with the drawback that he doesn't get stronger.
It is nice to have a short route to a powerfull unit with the drawback that he doesn't get stronger.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
- krotop
- 2009 Map Contest Winner
- Posts: 433
- Joined: June 8th, 2006, 3:05 pm
- Location: Bordeaux, France
There are others branchs than X Vs Y in MP that are growing in popularity like Survivals or Roleplay. For these games, not being able to advance to lvl3 is not pointless and remain MP-games.Becephalus wrote:And since this is the MP forum I will point out you never see a lvl 3 in MP anyway so who cares.
Don't trust me, I'm just average player.
***
Game feedback for the Nightmares of Meloen
Art feedback by mystic x the unknown
***
Game feedback for the Nightmares of Meloen
Art feedback by mystic x the unknown
-
- Posts: 99
- Joined: September 17th, 2006, 3:59 pm
- Location: the skies of atlantis
Shadow, I also like the L2-only lines. The javelineer just plugged up a RIPLIB hole, and the guy made some great art, so in it went. I suppose there's nothing preventing a L3 in principle, since I don't think restricting it to L2 was too vital a part of the original agreement.
"Then I'd prefer you refer to it as 'The Midlands'"
If I'm supposed to fight creeping biggerism, then why is it a game feature?
If I'm supposed to fight creeping biggerism, then why is it a game feature?
-
- Posts: 1264
- Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
- Location: Following the steps of Goethe
- Contact:
Well I just like it wouldn't mind if he gets a lv 3 (as if my opinion counts) but I also wouldn't mind if he stays the same.
If someone makes some good art why not?
If someone makes some good art why not?
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
-
- Inactive Developer
- Posts: 521
- Joined: October 27th, 2005, 5:30 am
- Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth
-
- Posts: 1264
- Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
- Location: Following the steps of Goethe
- Contact:
The art fairy won't appear if it is not sure that the this crap even will be added aside from the workload doing the animations.Becephalus wrote:waits for magical art fairy.
see no magical art fairy.
topic closed.
Keyword Runesmith, Axethrower.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
The magical art fairy might not be around, but the crappy hackjob gnome is here!
Not exactly mainline quality but I like the L2/L3 difference in mainline anyhow. If people want it for UMC scenarios though I could through in some crappy hackjob animations.
Not exactly mainline quality but I like the L2/L3 difference in mainline anyhow. If people want it for UMC scenarios though I could through in some crappy hackjob animations.
- Attachments
-
- javelineer2.png (3.64 KiB) Viewed 3692 times