What's a Goblin?

[Zhukov]

During a recent MP game, in which I played Northeners, something occured to me. There is prettymuch never any reason to recruit a goblin spearman.

For 8 gold I get 4MP, 18HP, no upkeep, no ZoC, 4-3 melee and 3-1 ranged. Those stats actually aren't too bad for the price. However for an extra 4 gold I can get a grunt with 5MP, 38HP(!), 1 upkeep, ZoC and 9-2 melee. Unlike the grunt, the goblin is really too weak to be much good. Plenty of level 1 units, with a little luck, can wipe him out in a single round, and with 4-3 damage he doesn't exactly go out with a bang. Also, the lack of ZoC and HP sorta prevents goblins from being effective at defence.
I usually only see people buying a gobo if they only have 8-11 gold left. Then he gets zapped by a mage and they're kicking themselves for spending 8 gold to give their opponent an easy 4XP. Especially since the gold could have gone towards a grunt (or troll, or naga etc).

To be fair, there are situations where they can be used. There was one occasion when my opponent, a Knalgan player, refused to move himself from his hill/mountain hexes and a painfully long standoff ensured. I recruited 4 upkeep-free goblins per round, for eight rounds. Then rushed him. It was fun. Another time a guy managed to kill my 1XP-from-level-up horseman by poking him with level 0 goblins then finishing him with an archer.
But these are pretty uncommon situations. In general the goblin isn't exactly a called-for unit.

On the other hand, am I missing a major point here? Is there something that makes goblins worth it?

Is there any chance of the unit being upgraded without screwing balance? Is there a reason for it being so slow? Perhaps give it 6MP rather then 4. Or give it skirmish. That would fit a goblin. Possible? 'Cause at the moment it's just seems to be wasting space on the Northener recruit list.

[DakaSha]

well they are pretty dang weak but they can be effective against drakes and cavalry of any kind as long as they are used correctly

[Troy]

canonfodder

[Blarumyrran]

well, drakes drakes drakes. thats it.

but i wouldnt mind at all if goblins had "swarm", and of course sprites edited to fit it. (like, 3 goblins on a square?) and stats boosted to make up for having swarm.

[Ken_Oh]

This could be said for really any of the level 0 units.

[CIB]

Not for the Vampire Bat since it is the only undead unit that can move fast over water..

[UngeheuerLich]

yes, and 13 Gold for cannon fodder is way too much... ^^

a bat is a very good scout on maps with deep water.


a goblin spearman as you already pointed out is used as
-defense vs units weak to pierce
-units to prevent a bat from grabbing your villages
-units you can recruit after you reached your Village support limit
-cannonfodder to secure your retreat at night
-unit to attack mages at dawn to prepare your retreat
-unit to prepare a kill with your ranged attack
-unit to finish off weakened opponents (3 attacks melee)
-unit you try to level up to get a unit with attacks as strong as a loyalist spearman after 10xp IIRC...
-fill gaps between ZOCs and your leader

so these are situations, where a goblin doesn´t hurt... maybe other units can do those jobs too/better, but if more than one of those situations come up together, then a goblin does a good job!

[Drake Blademaster]

I have used them to made a wall that my opponent can't get through. That buys me some time to buy higher-level units

[palloco]

I agree they are underused, and I buy them only on specific situations. Giving them skirmisher may overpower them. Maybe increasing from 4 MP to 5 or increasing the HP to 20 would be nice.

[Gallifax]

I think they are fine as they are. As any other unit they have their uses in the game. And of course they are only recruited if needed. I mean you wouldnt go all grunt vs undead, would you?


Regards Gallifax

[krotop]

I usually only see people buying a gobo if they only have 8-11 gold left.

Busted

But that's a purchase you shouldn't regret :
- you can poke at horsemen on a slot where you wouldn't want your archer
- they can finish off 5 hp units with better efficiency than a grunt, then the grunt you should have used for that job do not spend his 18-potential damage on a nearly-dead unit.
- you can hold a village on a flank where the opponent sometime send a luring troop.

They can save one unit for a better job on the whole and they can fill that one hex where with another faction you'd say "if only I had a little more money". Though, I wish they had 5 movepoints or more healthpoints too, especially for the upgraded version.

[UngeheuerLich]

WC´s also habe only 18 hp, and they can´t get strong or resilent.

18hp is about the limit most main fighting units can afflict in one attack series.

Thunderer, Grunt,... one more hp would make both units a lot better and could lead to a balance problem...

[Shadow]

For canonfodder I find him too overpriced and too specialised.

Against Drakes and horses almost mandatory. Actual a pitty it would have flair if he could be just recruited to swarm the enemy.

Being darn cheap and nothing more than a stopper or a small nuisance but at the moment he fills a gap in the orcish army.

[Troy]

REMOVED BY USER

[PingPangQui]

a goblin spearman (...) is used as
-defense vs units weak to pierce
-units to prevent a bat from grabbing your villages
-units you can recruit after you reached your Village support limit
-cannonfodder to secure your retreat at night
-unit to attack mages at dawn to prepare your retreat
-unit to prepare a kill with your ranged attack
-unit to finish off weakened opponents (3 attacks melee)
-unit you try to level up to get a unit with attacks as strong as a loyalist spearman after 10xp IIRC...
-fill gaps between ZOCs and your leader

That's all what needs to be said. Goblins will rarely be a main force but they have their uses. The longer you can keep them alive the more reasonable their investment. A goblin costs 8gold even after 20 turns. A grunt cost you 32 gold after 20 turns. This comes especially handy in faction, such as Northerns, where one certainly over-recruits, i.e. number of units exceeds number of owned villages.

I would be pretty much against 6mp - this would make quite a scout out of the gobo, but a skirmish gobo sounds cool though . I anycase this would need to be play tested.