4 p Geeks' Keys + 2 p Geeks' Sphere (my third & fourth)
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4 p Geeks' Keys + 2 p Geeks' Sphere (my third & fourth)
Here are a couple of maps I made.
Geeks' Keys is a 2 vs 2 map. I am actually submitting two versions of it for your kind attention and review. Both have been tested several times online, and people seemed to enjoy them. The first one is, well, the original variant. I was not too happy about it because players 1 and 2 were practically forced to stay home and never play aggressively. Leadership seemed useless. The second variant adds the small recruitment keeps towards the middle to give players 1 & 2 (but also 3 & 4) a possibility to be part of the action at the front. Please help me decide which is best and which should be scrapped.
Geeks' Sphere is a 1 vs 1 map. This has not been tested in the submitted format (previously the desert was much bigger and drakes had too much of an advantage).
Feedback much appreciated, thanks.
BTW, how do go about making a pack of the maps I designed and publishing it on the download server?
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~Ikk~~~Tss~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~IInIIZGTdsYss~~~~~~~~~~
~~~mEI1nrI/TGhwdsTsspu[u~~~~
~~~bEInrBIkkGTqGTksu]''o[u~~
~~~EEcIIIcIIkkTGQk[u''oo3uD~
~~~EcmcccIGGIIkkTGG]uE'[]~~~
~~~EdfcIIGGMGGIIkMJGEEEuu~~~
~~~EvgcITMPGTIGUTI/cLTEEm~~~
~~~EfGccIIGIIGGIIGIIccGfE~~~
~~~mEETLc/ITUGITGPMTIcgvE~~~
~~~uuEEEGJMkIIGGMGGIIcfdE~~~
~~~]['Eu]GGTkkIIGGIcccmcE~~~
~Du4oo''u[kQGTkkIIcIIIcEE~~~
~~u[o'']uskTGqTGkkIBrnIEb~~~
~~~~u[upssTsdwhGT/Irn2IEm~~~
~~~~~~~~~~ssYsdTGZIInII~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~ssT~~~kkI~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~Ikk~~~Tss~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~IInIIkGTdsYss~~~~~~~~~~
~~~mEI1nrI/TGhwdsTsspu[u~~~~
~~~bEInrBIkkGTqGTksu]''o[u~~
~~~EEcIIIcIIkkTGQk[u''oo3uD~
~~~EcmcccIGGIIkkTGG]uE'[]~~~
~~~EdfcIIGGPGGIIkMJGEEEuu~~~
~~~EvgcITMKnTIGUTI/cLTEEm~~~
~~~EfGccIIGIIGGIIGIIccGfE~~~
~~~mEETLc/ITUGITnKMTIcgvE~~~
~~~uuEEEGJMkIIGGPGGIIcfdE~~~
~~~]['Eu]GGTkkIIGGIcccmcE~~~
~Du4oo''u[kQGTkkIIcIIIcEE~~~
~~u[o'']uskTGqTGkkIBrnIEb~~~
~~~~u[upssTsdwhGT/Irn2IEm~~~
~~~~~~~~~~ssYsdTGkIInII~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~ssT~~~kkI~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~ggC1Cfg~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~GGcdckcCgEEhEtf~~~~~~~~
~~~~~Y?G??cGQ\cfgdEgEEgg~~~~~~
~~~~wGG??kkGcc|cgkcchgEEg~~~~~
~~~GGG?G?cGGwhQckfgfckfEmk~~~~
~~~G??GccMGBccqcgggmbmgEgk~~~~
~~G?GkcIIIIITIqKgsmssskk\gg~~~
~k?GkIMII&T&I&&&Q&s&sdffmggf~~
~mGKnPIU&&&&&&&&&&&&&mmvkgCK~~
~kGGnIII&&&&&&&&&&&&&dmfkgCf~~
~~??kkMIIITIII&KQsssssfkmgg~~~
~~GGG?ccIMIBTcqcggmmsmsE/kg~~~
~~~G?GGGccGGchqcgfgfbkgEgk~~~~
~~~~GG???kGGwcQckkgccgfEm~~~~~
~~~~wYGG??kGc/|fgdcghEEgg~~~~~
~~~~~~?G?cccQccggEEEEfg~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~G~dgkCCCEgh~t~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~g~2~f~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
Geeks' Keys is a 2 vs 2 map. I am actually submitting two versions of it for your kind attention and review. Both have been tested several times online, and people seemed to enjoy them. The first one is, well, the original variant. I was not too happy about it because players 1 and 2 were practically forced to stay home and never play aggressively. Leadership seemed useless. The second variant adds the small recruitment keeps towards the middle to give players 1 & 2 (but also 3 & 4) a possibility to be part of the action at the front. Please help me decide which is best and which should be scrapped.
Geeks' Sphere is a 1 vs 1 map. This has not been tested in the submitted format (previously the desert was much bigger and drakes had too much of an advantage).
Feedback much appreciated, thanks.
BTW, how do go about making a pack of the maps I designed and publishing it on the download server?
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~Ikk~~~Tss~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~IInIIZGTdsYss~~~~~~~~~~
~~~mEI1nrI/TGhwdsTsspu[u~~~~
~~~bEInrBIkkGTqGTksu]''o[u~~
~~~EEcIIIcIIkkTGQk[u''oo3uD~
~~~EcmcccIGGIIkkTGG]uE'[]~~~
~~~EdfcIIGGMGGIIkMJGEEEuu~~~
~~~EvgcITMPGTIGUTI/cLTEEm~~~
~~~EfGccIIGIIGGIIGIIccGfE~~~
~~~mEETLc/ITUGITGPMTIcgvE~~~
~~~uuEEEGJMkIIGGMGGIIcfdE~~~
~~~]['Eu]GGTkkIIGGIcccmcE~~~
~Du4oo''u[kQGTkkIIcIIIcEE~~~
~~u[o'']uskTGqTGkkIBrnIEb~~~
~~~~u[upssTsdwhGT/Irn2IEm~~~
~~~~~~~~~~ssYsdTGZIInII~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~ssT~~~kkI~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~Ikk~~~Tss~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~IInIIkGTdsYss~~~~~~~~~~
~~~mEI1nrI/TGhwdsTsspu[u~~~~
~~~bEInrBIkkGTqGTksu]''o[u~~
~~~EEcIIIcIIkkTGQk[u''oo3uD~
~~~EcmcccIGGIIkkTGG]uE'[]~~~
~~~EdfcIIGGPGGIIkMJGEEEuu~~~
~~~EvgcITMKnTIGUTI/cLTEEm~~~
~~~EfGccIIGIIGGIIGIIccGfE~~~
~~~mEETLc/ITUGITnKMTIcgvE~~~
~~~uuEEEGJMkIIGGPGGIIcfdE~~~
~~~]['Eu]GGTkkIIGGIcccmcE~~~
~Du4oo''u[kQGTkkIIcIIIcEE~~~
~~u[o'']uskTGqTGkkIBrnIEb~~~
~~~~u[upssTsdwhGT/Irn2IEm~~~
~~~~~~~~~~ssYsdTGkIInII~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~ssT~~~kkI~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
[map]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~ggC1Cfg~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~GGcdckcCgEEhEtf~~~~~~~~
~~~~~Y?G??cGQ\cfgdEgEEgg~~~~~~
~~~~wGG??kkGcc|cgkcchgEEg~~~~~
~~~GGG?G?cGGwhQckfgfckfEmk~~~~
~~~G??GccMGBccqcgggmbmgEgk~~~~
~~G?GkcIIIIITIqKgsmssskk\gg~~~
~k?GkIMII&T&I&&&Q&s&sdffmggf~~
~mGKnPIU&&&&&&&&&&&&&mmvkgCK~~
~kGGnIII&&&&&&&&&&&&&dmfkgCf~~
~~??kkMIIITIII&KQsssssfkmgg~~~
~~GGG?ccIMIBTcqcggmmsmsE/kg~~~
~~~G?GGGccGGchqcgfgfbkgEgk~~~~
~~~~GG???kGGwcQckkgccgfEm~~~~~
~~~~wYGG??kGc/|fgdcghEEgg~~~~~
~~~~~~?G?cccQccggEEEEfg~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~G~dgkCCCEgh~t~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~g~2~f~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[/map]
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Becephalus
- Inactive Developer
- Posts: 521
- Joined: October 27th, 2005, 5:30 am
- Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth
Large stretches of sand are very hard on non drakes.
Mountains next to villages make those villages very easy to capture as dwarves.
Cave is very hard to move in for most units.
Mountains next to villages make those villages very easy to capture as dwarves.
Cave is very hard to move in for most units.
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
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F8 Binds...
- Saurian Cartographer
- Posts: 622
- Joined: November 26th, 2006, 3:13 pm
- Location: Mid-Western United States
On the 1v1 I see 3 distinct zones... the western forest favoring elves, the sand favoring drakes, and the east favoring dwarves, giving elves a slight chance. Make these so that all races close to even on all of these. And yes, Bece hit it right on. Massing sand+cave is.... unbalanced to put it simple. Perhaps you aren't going for *balance* but right now, it ain't balanced.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
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Drake Blademaster
- Posts: 202
- Joined: March 26th, 2007, 5:38 am
- Location: Wesmere
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Drake Blademaster
- Posts: 202
- Joined: March 26th, 2007, 5:38 am
- Location: Wesmere
Yes, but drakes can FLY. They might not have the same defense in caves as dwarves, but Drakes are, in general, unaffected by terrain. (well, most of them. The Clasher line can't fly. But other than that. . .)
Last edited by Drake Blademaster on May 23rd, 2007, 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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F8 Binds...
- Saurian Cartographer
- Posts: 622
- Joined: November 26th, 2006, 3:13 pm
- Location: Mid-Western United States
Cave is not a terrain featured in most maps, and in default it should never be placed in great amounts. Therefore your experience was most likely on Children of Dragons where you face the trolls and dwarves... making it a scenario, a campaign, which is completely irreverent to the topic of balancing maps.Troy wrote:not in cave, it took me FOREVER to win a map in a cave as the drakes. they move slow in cave.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
Hi everybody and thxs for your replies.
Regarding the 1vs1: yes, there is still a largish desert, where drakes roam free. Other than that, I am not sure why drakes would dominate, unless it's because they dominate on any 1vs1 map larger than, say, 15x15 due to their superior movement.. But if so (really? I am not an expert player), then I guess designing largish maps for 1vs1 scenarios is doomed to failure from the start..?
On the other hand, I am not sure I see a problem with the western forests or the eastern front. The western forest is just a place where elves could make a defensive stand protecting the home base ("fine, lemme go the other way"), and nothing much more, really. The eastern front seems to me reasonably mixed with all terrain types. Right, I could probably tone down mountains a bit there, like replace those surrounding villages 21,7 and 21,14.
Regarding the 2vs2 : yes, there are huge streches of sand, but they are interleaved with grass, water and fords. All units move ok on grass, they just better not fight on sands vs drakes. Much of the action is going to happen in the north and south green peninsulae, anyway. I don't see any problems with villages, those close to mountains are just so far away from enemy that, in all the games I have played on this map, they were never even attacked (and much less so, defended). And I don't see any problem with caves, either: the battle is resolved in the center or, more likely, in the green peninsulae.. I have never seen dwarfs, or any other faction, making a (doomed) stand in the caves, say. In other words, the cave area might seem big here, but it's not where the battle will rage, so doesn't matter much, imho. It just makes winning the peninsulae and/or center more important than going straight at player 2's or 3's castle, which is the way it should be. The recruitment keeps in the 2nd variant are to incentivate moving for the center, despite the frightful sand, and not just split the battle in 1vs3 and 2vs4 via the green peninsulae.
Regarding the 1vs1: yes, there is still a largish desert, where drakes roam free. Other than that, I am not sure why drakes would dominate, unless it's because they dominate on any 1vs1 map larger than, say, 15x15 due to their superior movement.. But if so (really? I am not an expert player), then I guess designing largish maps for 1vs1 scenarios is doomed to failure from the start..?
On the other hand, I am not sure I see a problem with the western forests or the eastern front. The western forest is just a place where elves could make a defensive stand protecting the home base ("fine, lemme go the other way"), and nothing much more, really. The eastern front seems to me reasonably mixed with all terrain types. Right, I could probably tone down mountains a bit there, like replace those surrounding villages 21,7 and 21,14.
Regarding the 2vs2 : yes, there are huge streches of sand, but they are interleaved with grass, water and fords. All units move ok on grass, they just better not fight on sands vs drakes. Much of the action is going to happen in the north and south green peninsulae, anyway. I don't see any problems with villages, those close to mountains are just so far away from enemy that, in all the games I have played on this map, they were never even attacked (and much less so, defended). And I don't see any problem with caves, either: the battle is resolved in the center or, more likely, in the green peninsulae.. I have never seen dwarfs, or any other faction, making a (doomed) stand in the caves, say. In other words, the cave area might seem big here, but it's not where the battle will rage, so doesn't matter much, imho. It just makes winning the peninsulae and/or center more important than going straight at player 2's or 3's castle, which is the way it should be. The recruitment keeps in the 2nd variant are to incentivate moving for the center, despite the frightful sand, and not just split the battle in 1vs3 and 2vs4 via the green peninsulae.