Clasher peirce resistance

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Velensk
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Clasher peirce resistance

Post by Velensk »

Dispite knowing how quickly most balancing threads get shot down I'm going to put this suggestion forward. Increase pircing resistance on clashers to 10%.

The Reason I suggest this is the way most loyalist vs Drake games I've seen. The drakes can't do much at day because all thier units can be killed by cheap spearman. They can't even hold a defencive line for any time. Even their toughest unit has a realy low chance of surviving three spearmen attacking it. This leaves the drakes night to try to do real damage, but limits them to two units. The loyalists can also counter these units (though not as easily)

As for other factions vs drake the changes I see that might be a problem,
vs rebels, less vunerable to all the bows the elves carry
vs knalgans, method of trying to attack thunderers, less vunerability to poachers/thunderers,
vs undead, skelotons archers do less not realy a huge deal
vs northerners, archers not quite as effective, goblins not quite as effective,

I expect this to be swatted down however if anyone else thinks it is a good idea (or can present logical reasons why it is a bad idea) I would like them to speak.
Ultimatum479
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Post by Ultimatum479 »

We already have a thread on Drakes versus Thunderers, and it's primarily due to the pierce resistance of Drakes. Post there.
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Velensk
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Post by Velensk »

I did mention it there but no one seemed to notice. This was inspired by a diffrent match up and I figured that if I seperated it someone might take a note to it as a seprate suggestion.
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Cackfiend
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Post by Cackfiend »

I posted this in the other thread but maybe you should check it out.
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Velensk
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Post by Velensk »

I had problems when I tried downloading that one. Would not decompress right
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Post by Raemon »

Velensk wrote:Even their toughest unit has a realy low chance of surviving three spearmen attacking it.
Umm . . . How many level 1s can survive three spearmen on bad terrain, especially at day? Of course, calshers are virtually always on bad terrain, but still. And it's not that low - 7-9 (Three ordinary spearmen) on 43 HP isn't too bad. It can survive six of the attacks, which in't shabby . . .
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Post by Cackfiend »

Velensk wrote:I had problems when I tried downloading that one. Would not decompress right
use WinRaR
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Velensk
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Post by Velensk »

I never said anything about bad terrain. Drakes don't have good terrain. Most races tank unit can survive 3 spearman at day if on good terrain.

Going with the odds (defence)

Wose can do it. (40%)
Elvish fighter might be able to. (60%)
Heavy infantry can do it (though loyalists can counter with their own spearman) (40%)
Skelotons can do it. (50%)
Dwarven Fighters can do it (60-70%)
dwarven gaurdsman can do it (50-60%)
Trolls can do it (50%)

I understand that defending is not supposed to be a drake strong point but I think that it might be better if there was something that could more effectivly stop spearman at day.
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Post by Becephalus »

I think that generally drakes vs loyalists is a tough matchup, but [players who really are struggling with it are most likely not using drake mobility to its fullest extent and/or playing on unbalanced maps.
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Post by Gus »

Velensk wrote:I never said anything about bad terrain.
His point was that any unit with 40% def was dead meat when faced with THREE other lvl1 units. It's up to you to use some of the Drakes' advantages (mobility, high HP, whatnot) to make up for the weaknesses (pierce vulnerability, low def, whatnotagain).
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Post by Wintermute »

Velensk wrote:They can't even hold a defencive line for any time.
"faction x can't do y"

Frustrations like this get posted all the time, but the reason that they get "swatted down" so quickly is that not all factions are able to do y.

In this case, it should come as no surprise to anyone that Drakes can't hold a line. Would giving clashers 10% pierce resistance help this? Perhaps, in some cases, but it begs the question: why are you trying to hold a line? If you are fighting with the most mobile, nearly purely offensive faction, what point is there in making a line and trying to hold off one of the slowest factions? Think about what would happen if you *didn't* make a line? Perhaps the spearman march along in the day, take a few villages perhaps, and then it's night! You have chaotic units, and your clashers are 5-4 vs. a spearman at 5-3 (at night). And most importantly, you should be able to attack the loyalists at any time, while keeping enough of their units out of range so as to allow you to force the battle to occur at night, or other with other favorable circumstances. Him attacking your line is not likely to be favorable.

Just my two cents.
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Yogin
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Re: Clasher peirce resistance

Post by Yogin »

Second to everything Wintermute said. Also ...
Velensk wrote:The Reason I suggest this is the way most loyalist vs Drake games I've seen. The drakes can't do much at day because all thier units can be killed by cheap spearman.
... This leaves the drakes night to try to do real damage, but limits them to two units.
Why two units? Wintermute mentioned the Clasher: 5-4 at night isn't bad. In fact it's an Elvish Fighter. Have you tried a burner at night vs. all the melee units the loyalists have?

As for saurians, you say that
The loyalists can also counter these units (though not as easily)
Well duh, everything can always be countered by every faction. If that weren't the case, then there would indeed be an imbalance. The point is tradeoffs. How do the loyalists counter saurians? Not via spearmen and horsemen. They have to use mages. Well how do the drakes counter mages? etc. etc.

All factional matchups have this same feeling: Attacker recruits unit A1 to counter Unit D1, so defender recruits Unit D2 to counter A1, and then attacker has to recruit A2 to counter D2, etc.

The reason people feel frustrated with certain balance issues, is that they don't think out of the box. Drakes need to be played very differently vs. loyalists than they are played vs. every other faction.
UngeheuerLich
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Post by UngeheuerLich »

it just sunds like give drakes cold resi, because at night you can´t stop undead...

:P
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