The Dwarvish Treasure - Version 0.5
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1)I am thinking about stealing the "Shopping round" in the beginning like Capn' Wankel suggested from Survivor.Arhnayel wrote:Hello Baufo !
I played this map few times those last days with some friends and here are our feedback :
1) heroes too powerfull are drakes because of their fire ranged attack and their very powerfull close combat attack. Elves (arhcers, warriors) are quite powerfull too. But some wizards (darkness wizard, chaman) are very weak in the first turns for their attacks are low or do no damage to undeads creep. Maybe giving those characters a better attack ? Or lower drakes / elves ?
2) too much monsters of weak power. When you rise your melee attack, you kill nearly 2-3 monsters each computer's turn (and 1 at your own turn). And raise your hp by 20-30. So when you have to fight trolls, dwarfs, spiders and yetis, it's too easy. Maybe putting a turn limit ? Having a hp limit ? same for increase damage (we add a great red mage with 50-8 fire :/ he killed an ancient wose in 5 shots, the wose had 567 hp...). Not enough "challenge" if you see what I mean. Maybe changing the monster creation at turn 10-15 for no more lvl 0 and only lvl 1, then at turn 20-25 only lvl 2, then only lvl 3 at turn 30-35 (and they only give you simple bonus, big bonus should be reserved to yetis, potions, heroes etc.).
3) Big monsters should be more powerfull. As Capn'Wankel said, not enough ranged attack monsters so you can shoot the last monsters very easily.
4) Also a limit to the maximal amount of strikes. Having a character with 7+ strikes is insane. You say hello to a yeti and kill it in one turn :/
5) It should be impossible to poison dwarves, spiders, yetis, last big trolls. Too easy to kill a yeti you poisoned. Just wait few turns (go kill some lower creeps) and then kill it when it has only 10 or less hp.
I think that's all ! Anyway, it's a very cool map ! We had lot of fun ^^ Great job !
2) Hmm I think about lowering the passive hp upgrade. Furthermore I am thinking about modifying creep stats and I will definitly add more ranged creeps and different damage types of creeps (most creeps are impact and that's very good for impact resistent units). But I don't like to add limits for the game. This would just lead to players camping at the stoned trolls because they have already reached all limits.
3) I might increase their HP again (I actually lowered it to make games at least a bit faster) and am definitly going to add a ranged attack for them.
4) See above. And in other games (like Dot<X>s) 7+ heros are very usual.
5) Hmm don't know. It is still a risk to poison a Yeti since it makes killing it easier not only for you. I will think about that.
Anyway since school has started this week I want have time for further scenario testing untill weekend and I think we won't get a new version before that.
Oh and I am very glad you like the scenario!
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
I found a problem.
I downloaded the extended era and have had it for a while.
I decided to download this map because it looked cool and I enjoy it.
However, I noticed something.
This download makes the outlaw princess and Queen image DISAPPEAR.
I checked to make sure and it is THIS download that causes it because the image was back when I deleted this map.
I even made sure it wasn't just my computer by asking Nickname if he could download this map and see if his image disappears. He downloaded it and the outlaw princess and queen image did indeed disappear.
I have no idea why that happens, but it does.
I downloaded the extended era and have had it for a while.
I decided to download this map because it looked cool and I enjoy it.
However, I noticed something.
This download makes the outlaw princess and Queen image DISAPPEAR.
I checked to make sure and it is THIS download that causes it because the image was back when I deleted this map.
I even made sure it wasn't just my computer by asking Nickname if he could download this map and see if his image disappears. He downloaded it and the outlaw princess and queen image did indeed disappear.
I have no idea why that happens, but it does.
Hmm? Hmm...zxzxi wrote:I found a problem.
I downloaded the extended era and have had it for a while.
I decided to download this map because it looked cool and I enjoy it.
However, I noticed something.
This download makes the outlaw princess and Queen image DISAPPEAR.
I checked to make sure and it is THIS download that causes it because the image was back when I deleted this map.
I even made sure it wasn't just my computer by asking Nickname if he could download this map and see if his image disappears. He downloaded it and the outlaw princess and queen image did indeed disappear.
I have no idea why that happens, but it does.
Well let's try if I remove some unnecessary binarypaths and [+unit] tags (unnecessary as long as I do not contribute additional data with the scenario - I might write such version sometime). Please tell me if the scenario keeps destroying other add ons!
Edit: I think I have not made that clear: I have uploaded this attempt to stop the scenario to destroy other add ons as 0.1b to the campaign server. A really new rebalanced version won't be out before weekend I think.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
I am glad to here that. Though I still wonder why my binary path messed anything else up. But I think I won't eve contribute own data with this scenario anyway.zxzxi wrote:This version works. I downloaded it and I still have the outlaw princess and queen image.
Thank you for fixing that.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
One of the big problem with your map is that it is easy to kill the same player again and again... For example last game I killed a player, and then he respawed but since I had higher movement then him I could simply run after him and kill him again in a never ending cycle of strikes +1 . The host wasn't too happy about it however, and ended up kicking me 
. But anyway it seems to me that there should be some kind of protection once your respawn, so you are not killed again and again without being able to do anything...
. The host wasn't too happy about it however, and ended up kicking me . But anyway it seems to me that there should be some kind of protection once your respawn, so you are not killed again and again without being able to do anything...Also, having to kill all the yeti before you can go to center means you often have an incitative NOT to kill the last yeti since to kill one you need to get away from the treasure and therefore leave the way free for other players to take it. Maybe just put a turn timer before the statues are removed, or make it depend on monsters that roam around the level. Or, give a very powerful special bonus once you kill the last yeti, or teleport the guy who killed him near the center 
Hmm yes I am going to give the last yet killer a bigger bonus. But I _want_ other players to be still able to win.Merudo wrote:Also, having to kill all the yeti before you can go to center means you often have an incitative NOT to kill the last yeti since to kill one you need to get away from the treasure and therefore leave the way free for other players to take it. Maybe just put a turn timer before the statues are removed, or make it depend on monsters that roam around the level. Or, give a very powerful special bonus once you kill the last yeti, or teleport the guy who killed him near the center
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
I have now written 0.2. I will update the download as soon the campaign server is working again.
Changelog:
The six yetis have now got all six different damage types (one for each) and a ranged attack.
The stoned trolls are now far stronger.
Different stronger creeps (with more different damage types).
Removed: Plague Staff.
Added: Crossbow.
Changelog:
The six yetis have now got all six different damage types (one for each) and a ranged attack.
The stoned trolls are now far stronger.
Different stronger creeps (with more different damage types).
Removed: Plague Staff.
Added: Crossbow.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
Great map and nice upgrade ! However this map has still some problems :
-Trolls are still stoned even after all yeti are dead.
-Killing a player gives full HP back, making it impossible for a group of weak people to team up and defeat the most powerful player. This makes the most powerful player even more powerful.
-Buying weapons is often a waste, since when you buy them they don't have the upgrades you previously collected. Why not make it like in DotG where new weapons have the bonus of the old ones ?
-Drakes in general, and especially burners/gliders are very powerful. They have great movement, some of the highest number of attacks, great resistance ( only lvl 0 goblins have pierce, and dwarves use fire attacks ) and a fire attack that is not resisted by anything. Bad defense doesn't matter much since there is hardly any defensive terrain to use.
-Killing lvl 2 creeps doesn't give you much of a bonus. In fact killing two lvl 0 creeps gives a better bonus and is often quicker. A strong creep only gives +3 to attack, while a lvl 0 gives +2....
-Blue potion is a bit weak also, maybe you should make it better. As it is often people go straight for yeti/red potion and forget blue potion completely.
-Someone killing another player will get +1 strikes to both melee and ranged, according to many players it is overpowered. You might want to change it so you have to choose either melee or ranged strike bonus, it would also be more fair for characters without both types of attack.
-Trolls are still stoned even after all yeti are dead.
-Killing a player gives full HP back, making it impossible for a group of weak people to team up and defeat the most powerful player. This makes the most powerful player even more powerful.
-Buying weapons is often a waste, since when you buy them they don't have the upgrades you previously collected. Why not make it like in DotG where new weapons have the bonus of the old ones ?
-Drakes in general, and especially burners/gliders are very powerful. They have great movement, some of the highest number of attacks, great resistance ( only lvl 0 goblins have pierce, and dwarves use fire attacks ) and a fire attack that is not resisted by anything. Bad defense doesn't matter much since there is hardly any defensive terrain to use.
-Killing lvl 2 creeps doesn't give you much of a bonus. In fact killing two lvl 0 creeps gives a better bonus and is often quicker. A strong creep only gives +3 to attack, while a lvl 0 gives +2....
-Blue potion is a bit weak also, maybe you should make it better. As it is often people go straight for yeti/red potion and forget blue potion completely.
-Someone killing another player will get +1 strikes to both melee and ranged, according to many players it is overpowered. You might want to change it so you have to choose either melee or ranged strike bonus, it would also be more fair for characters without both types of attack.
-Gah, sorry silly mistake with the unstoning (it works fine in previous version though): I forgot to initialize the variable that counts the yetis you kill with the correct value again after I changed it for debugging. 
I will upload a corrected version now. Thanks for pointing that out.
-True, I will remove the full heal.
-In DotG weapons have not got the upgrades you bought even if I am thinking about that. It is a part of strategie to decide early which weapons might be usefull later.
-Hmm should I remove drakes? This makes me thinking of a buying round (like in surivor) even more.
-Hmm maybe I should decrease the effect of killing normal creeps to 1 again? Something more to think about.
-Blue potion is IMO better than red, but it might be a question of preference. But I agree that the guardian of the red one is far weaker somehow. I might increase the stats of this rune masters a bit
-You must keep in mind that you can't chose if you kill it on your enemys turn so it could be very unfair if you get the wrong one (e.g.: have a mage as hero but get melee strikes increased). If you want to get the maximal effect of the strike increase it might be a good idea to get a weapon of the other range early.
I will upload a corrected version now. Thanks for pointing that out.-True, I will remove the full heal.
-In DotG weapons have not got the upgrades you bought even if I am thinking about that. It is a part of strategie to decide early which weapons might be usefull later.
-Hmm should I remove drakes? This makes me thinking of a buying round (like in surivor) even more.
-Hmm maybe I should decrease the effect of killing normal creeps to 1 again? Something more to think about.
-Blue potion is IMO better than red, but it might be a question of preference. But I agree that the guardian of the red one is far weaker somehow. I might increase the stats of this rune masters a bit
-You must keep in mind that you can't chose if you kill it on your enemys turn so it could be very unfair if you get the wrong one (e.g.: have a mage as hero but get melee strikes increased). If you want to get the maximal effect of the strike increase it might be a good idea to get a weapon of the other range early.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
A few ideas about balance
1) I think there should only be a bonus once per player for killing him. Repeated slaying and camping out at the respawn spot isn't a good sport and is very imbalancing. Yet the rules encourage it. So, only give that bonus to the first player who kills player A, after that he becomes "worthless".
2) The creeps often tend to collectively go towards one direction. That means that one side will get all the xp and bonuses handed on a platter while the other has to run and catch them. I wonder how this can be solved... this is especially true for the level 2 creeps that start in the center. I think one idea would be to place different terrains on the exits to the inner level and then give the level 2 creeps a 99 movement cost to a few of those (ice, sand, swamp come to mind). That means they will head towards specific directions, unless someone enters the inner zone. As it is now, they just all run towards what they see as the best target, and they seem to be all agreeing on who that is
.
EDIT: the strong creeps might also simply prefer going west to going east, too...
1) I think there should only be a bonus once per player for killing him. Repeated slaying and camping out at the respawn spot isn't a good sport and is very imbalancing. Yet the rules encourage it. So, only give that bonus to the first player who kills player A, after that he becomes "worthless".
2) The creeps often tend to collectively go towards one direction. That means that one side will get all the xp and bonuses handed on a platter while the other has to run and catch them. I wonder how this can be solved... this is especially true for the level 2 creeps that start in the center. I think one idea would be to place different terrains on the exits to the inner level and then give the level 2 creeps a 99 movement cost to a few of those (ice, sand, swamp come to mind). That means they will head towards specific directions, unless someone enters the inner zone. As it is now, they just all run towards what they see as the best target, and they seem to be all agreeing on who that is
.EDIT: the strong creeps might also simply prefer going west to going east, too...
Try some Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns