Defense of the Marshal (MP Scenario) [Version: 1.2.2]

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » March 26th, 2006, 3:45 pm

For the latest development version of Wesnoth only.

This is a multiplayer scenario. Your can buy items, upgrade weapons, and more. Your goal here is to defend your Marshal and kill enemy's Marshal.

Created based on MiniDotW (credits: Appleide, Elvish Pillager, Lunar2, Yogin, claus) which was inspired by the mod for Warcraft III... Visit http://www.dota-allstars.com/

Get this MP scenario from the campaigns server (Get Add-ons).

It is highly recommended to read the readme file before hosting the game for the first time.

If you found any bug, please post in this thread. Thanks.

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » April 2nd, 2006, 3:35 pm

Version 1.1 has been published. Changelog in the readme file.

JW · Post by JW » April 2nd, 2006, 5:14 pm

If I may make some observations:

Currently I've noticed the Elvish Archer is the #1 used character. The reason I think this is so is because of his 6 movement, his 70% defense in forest, and his easily upgraded 5-4 ranged attack. Okay, you already knew his stats, but take a look at the map. In both disputed center villages there are 2 forest hexes next to them and no other high defense hexes (okay, sand for saurians, but they can use the forest too). Because of this Elves have a far easier time attacking the two center villages than any other race.

I suggest swapping the hill and forest hexes for one side on each town. Here I have switched hexes 12.13 with 13.14 and 15.9 with 16.9:
[map]WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWhWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWkfYfkWWWWuWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWkkhkkkhkkWWWWuWWWW
WWWWWWWgkdmmfffmmdkgWWWWuWW
WWWWWHSgkNfghghgfNkgSHWWWWW
WWWRFRg\ckgggvgggkc/gRFRWWW
WuERR1cggvkhfdhfkvggc7RREuW
WoEkkRkgghkkccckkhggkRkkEoW
W8SRk3RhfmfkcsckfmfhR5kRS4W
WoSkkRRgfhfkccckfhfgRRkkSoW
WuERk6kggvkfcdchkvggk2kREuW
WWERRRc/gkkghvfgkkg\cRRREWW
WWWWFHggcNgggggggNcggHFWWWW
WWWWWWSgkdfmhfhmfdkgSWWWWWW
WWuWWWWWkkmhfkfhmkkWWWWWWWW
WWWWuWWWWWkkkYkkkWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWuWWWWWfhfWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW[/map]

This will subtract the advantage for the elves for one direction for each side.

Another observation I have made is between two purchasable items. The Crossbow grants an 8-1 ranged pierce attack for 130g and the Poison Darts grant a 2-3 ranged pierce attack with poison for 200g. Calculating the damage difference for upgrades we see that the Darts are +840-390-70 = +380 gold better - in damage alone - than the Crossbow. On top of the damage bonus it has over the Crossbow, the Darts also have the benefit of being the only purchasable Poison item. This can be quite an annoyance when a skirmisher purchases this and quickly runs to your leader.

I'm not against having poison be purchasable, or even against poison being used on leaders for that matter. The only problem I have is that the crossbow is obsolete and should never be purchased. I would suggest dropping the Darts to 2-2. This way they have a difference in value of +420-390-70 = -40 compared to the crossbow in terms of damage output. They would have the added benefit of poison, which should counter that 40 gold difference quite easily.

That's all my observations for now. Thanks to all you guys for putting in all the effort that you have to making a great scenario. It's much appreciated!

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 2nd, 2006, 6:37 pm

My main beef is with the Ulfserker. Last game I played on this map, I bet big gold on turn 1 that an enemy Ulf would be the key to our demise, and sure enough, it was.

It's pretty pathetic when the game can be decided before turn 1!

Post by **Soliton** » April 2nd, 2006, 7:41 pm

Interesting to see the different approaches to improving the game.
And I was wondering how you can make so many posts without getting anymore involved with development.

JW · Post by JW » April 2nd, 2006, 7:53 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:My main beef is with the Ulfserker. Last game I played on this map, I bet big gold on turn 1 that an enemy Ulf would be the key to our demise, and sure enough, it was.

It's pretty pathetic when the game can be decided before turn 1!

I haven't played a game with one of these yet, but I imagine that an opposing melee unit could make nice work of this guy. He does have low defenses, although his melee is very easy to upgrade at 130 a pop.

If I get a game with one I'll let ya know. Of course, you could always go Ghost...

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 2nd, 2006, 9:00 pm

Thing is, the Ulf is not only berserk, he's GOOD at melee. He'll concentrate on his melee attack and be the best melee-er in the game, not something that just any melee unit can "make nice work of". It doesn't even have the usual disadvantage of costing almost half again as much as them, since cost is irrelevant.

JW · Post by JW » April 2nd, 2006, 10:32 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:Thing is, the Ulf is not only berserk, he's GOOD at melee. He'll concentrate on his melee attack and be the best melee-er in the game, not something that just any melee unit can "make nice work of". It doesn't even have the usual disadvantage of costing almost half again as much as them, since cost is irrelevant.

My theory is that when facing an ulf you'll have to focus on mele, just as he does. Example:

Ulf: 4-4 -> 24-6

EF: 5-4 -> 25-6 with same gold spent. I don't think it's an auto-win is what I'm trying to say. I'm really curious as to what units you had to face him with...

My first impression is to say, "nerf the Ulf," as he can easily buy a secondary melee, but I don't want to give any actual suggestions until I try it. As a ballpark estimate I'll throw out "change it to 5-3 like in Roze's Creep War." Don't take that as my actual judgment though.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 2nd, 2006, 10:37 pm

JW wrote:Ulf: 4-4 -> 24-6

EF: 5-4 -> 25-6 with same gold spent.

Actual damage by Ulf: 24-6
Actual damage by EF: 20-6 with same gold spent.

Also, Ulf has more HP and is better at moving. Less defense, I suppose, but he can stay away from forest if he has to...

JW · Post by JW » April 2nd, 2006, 10:40 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:Actual damage by Ulf: 24-6
Actual damage by EF: 20-6 with same gold spent.

Also, Ulf has more HP and is better at moving. Less defense, I suppose, but he can stay away from forest if he has to...

-how do you get 20-6?

Strikes for both are 420 and +2dmg for both is 130. They would both spend a total of 2140. Remember also that the EF has +1 move on the ulf to start.

Tippsey · Post by **Tippsey** » April 2nd, 2006, 11:48 pm

Actualy ulf has 5 move not 4 it's the fast dwarf...

JW · Post by JW » April 3rd, 2006, 1:18 am

You're right. ><

In any case, I'm gonna try playing a game with one tonight. I'll report later.

Oreb · Post by **Oreb** » April 3rd, 2006, 1:47 am

JW wrote:You're right. ><

In any case, I'm gonna try playing a game with one tonight. I'll report later.

Awww.. this sucks. I won't be on

Well using the Ulf would be a good way to see if you can end the game in one attack

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » April 3rd, 2006, 10:03 am

JW wrote:-how do you get 20-6?

20% blade resistance.

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » April 4th, 2006, 3:49 pm

about the map... i didn't notice that elvish archer is #1 unit on this map

maybe it was a coincidence that everytime you play, there is an elvish archer. but anyways... if put one hill beside each of those villages... i'm afraid dwarves will be more evil in this game.

about the Venom Darts... thanks for pointing that out. I've adjusted the prices of all of those buyable weapons.

about ulf... i played ulf once. i focused on the berserk attack, didn't buy any ranged weapon and asked my teammate to pump me with money so i can charge to the Marshal. but those tiny creeps kept surrounding and attacking me with ranged

at last, that stalwart managed to kill my Marshal first

but i'm gonna try it again.

thanks for comments and suggestions

version 1.1.1 is on the campaigns server now. changelog in the readme file.