A Turn-Based Real-Time Strategy Game

[Melkor's Therapist]

This post ties into some of the discussion here about finding a middle ground between TBS games and RTS games. I decided to post this as a new topic instead of resurrecting the old thread.

I was recently thinking about turn mechanics for a hypothetical turn-based strategy game where all units move simultaneously. In each player's turn they would issue instructions to all their units, but those orders would not be carried out until they "commit" their turn. Other games such as Laser Squad have a system like this.

I decided that in any implementation of this kind of mechanic, the individual units would need a great deal of autonomous control logic. The reason is that at the time of the player issuing the orders, there is no way to know whether the units will be able to directly carry them out, or if they might have to deal with some unforeseen situation - for example, another unit moving into their path. It would not be very satisfactory to have to stop the execution of the turn every time this happened to ask the player what they want to do. So, the game would need a system where the unit can deal with the situation itself (for example, re-pathing around an unexpected obstacle), or where the player can tell the unit beforehand how it should respond to a number of likely situations, or some combination of the two.

It occurs to me that, given this requirement, the game will need the same unit controls and autonomous unit AI as an RTS does. In fact, the game will be very similar to modern RTS games, differing in only these ways:

1. The game automatically pauses itself after every N seconds of play, where N is the length of a "turn". It does not resume until all players agree to.

2. The players can only issue instructions to their units while the game is paused, not while it is in motion. In most RTS games the reverse is true.

This gives a simple template to modify a conventional RTS into a TBS/RTS hybrid. The resulting game should have very similar strategic gameplay as the original RTS (with an additional layer of "real world" indirect command necessities as the turn length increases), but without the pressure that induces RTS games to become "clickfests".

It seems to me that if I were constructing a "simultaneous" TBS, it would likely be easier and give better results to use the above template on an RTS design, instead of designing it from the ground up as a TBS. A big potential advantage of doing it this way is that the interface should be very simplified and streamlined, since it would be based on others that were intended to be workable during a frantic clickfest. By way of contrast, I initially found Laser Squad's interface to be off-puttingly clunky and complex.

Does anyone know of other games that have already tried a similar thing?

[Velensk]

Have you played Robo Rally? In the game each round starts with each player getting 9 minus the amount of damage they have taken, cards.
The cards have on them things like, move 1, move 2, rotate right, rotate left, back up, and so on. Each player places 5 of them down in an order (upside down).

The boards have variouse obsticals and elements, converyor belts and such. Each round has 5 phases 1 for each card. Each phase the robots move as their controlers card states what the robots do. They might move forward or rotate or something simular(each card has a priority incase it becomes important). Then the board moves them, if they are on a conveyor belt it moves them the direction indicated, if they are on a pusher it pushes them, if they are on a gear it turns them and so on. After that the robots and the board fire at the same time. Anyone hit takes damage.

This seems simular to what you were talking about.

[Darn Penguin]

Sounds like instead of specific commands, you would have to give your units "objectives," like destroying a certain enemy, protecting a certain ally or area, or getting to a specific location. Each round you would be allowed to change these "objectives" to your liking. Units that have completed their objectives (or were not issued any) would stand their ground until issued a command.

[Velensk]

An alternitive would be to set it up on a phase system and have each phase be about 2 seconds, have it so that you plan 3-5 phases ahead before you can react again. Orders oould be divided into act and move orders, you get one of each per phase, act orders could be to shoot at a specific target shoot at nearest target use a special ability ect. During each phase the unit moves if he has been told to and acts while he moves.

Just throwing this out there for consitertation.

[meriton]

Does you know Titans of Steel? It is in some sense on the middle ground between turn based, and real time.

In a nutshell, its turn-based play, where orders take several turns to complete. Hence, during most turns, no orders can be given. Such turns are skipped by the game engine.

Example:
Turn 1: Your robot asks for orders, you tell it to run. Running to the next hex takes 15 seconds (=turns).

The game skips over turns 2-15, as nothing happens in those turns.

Turn 16: The robot reaches the destination hex, and asks for orders. You tell it to run again (duration 15 seconds).

The game skips turns until:

Turn 21: Enemy rockets hit your robot's leg. Since the robot is currently running the pilot has an especially hard time compensating and the robot tumbles to the ground. The robot, now prone, asks for orders. You tell it to get up.

The advantage of such a system is the very fine grained representation of game time, while still giving the player as much time for thought as he needs.

[deoxy]

There aree actually quit a fw such games already in existence... in space settings. The Master of Orion series (1 was great in it's time, 2 is STILL great - 3 was a bit overdone) is a great example.

The reason for the "space" setting is to avoid the particular problems you were mentioning (collisions, etc) - the only places to go are star systems, and combat happens there - that is, the number of destinations is very low, and all places in between essentially do not exist (that is, you never run into enemy units out there).

Doing something like that on TERRAIN would indeed be very hard.

Oh, and I second looking at Robo Rally - not my cup of tea, personally, but a nifty board game that some people LOVE.

[Becephalus]

As you mentioned LSN (Laser Squad Nemesis) does this very well. I played the crap out of that game right before I started Wesnoth. In fact my first 3 months free of online play that ended from buying the game is what prompted me to look for somethign else.