more branching for northerners!

[xtifr]

I've seen a lot of discussion lately about expanding the dwarves' lines, but not so much about adding branches for the northerners. Frankly, I think the "dark side of the force" needs and deserves more attention. The "good guys" already have two of the most versatile and varied factions with the loyalists and the rebels. The northerners have a pretty nice selection of level one units, but I think they'd be more interesting and fun if they had a little more variety in their level two and three units. Not (necessarily) more powerful units, but simply a little more variety.

Of course, I may be biased, since I'm starting to sketch out some notes for a simple Orcish campaign, but still...

Anyway, I've got some loose ideas for some expansions of the Notherners' lines, but first I thought I'd see if there's any support for this notion at all.

[Disto]

Northerners do need at least 2 more advances, probably a Xbowman and a assassin or spearman upgrade.

[Draconio]

I agree, Northerners feel a little rough around the edges to me and it's annoying that some of their basic units (notably bowman) can only level up once. I think at the very least we should have a level 3 to the Orcish bowman line. A level 3 assassin would be good too, not so sure about the spearman. I would also support the proposal of having a second branch in the grunt line, if there's a suitable concept for one.

Straying off topic a bit, but this reminds me... why does the Goblin Impaler graphic seem to be partly transluscent?

[Disto]

It isn't, it is just quite light compared to other units, the colours are not as bold.

It seems to me that there isn't enough contrast between dark and light, so there is far too much light which gives it this translucent affect but i could be wrong.

[romnajin]

There has been talk of a burner in the orcish archer line

[turin]

Northerner units I would like to see (in the order I want to see them):

1) Level 3 orcish archer, tentatively called the "slurbow" (we have graphics already, not sure if they are good enough)

2) Level 3 orcish assassin, called the "stalker" (iirc have pretty good graphics already)

3) Level 2 alternative orcish archer, the one talked about earlier with a fire attack (goes along with the idea of giving lvl 1 orcish archer a fire attack also)

4) Level 1 alternative goblin spearmen, the much-discussed "rouser" (we have images, but they're not good enough)

5) Level 2 alternative orcish grunt. Fmunoz had an idea for a "vassal", not sure what happened, probably he got busy,

[Elvish_Pillager]

5) Level 2 alternative orcish grunt. Fmunoz had an idea for a "vassal", not sure what happened, probably he got busy,

Idea: (sheesh, probably my third l2 grunt idea) "Orcish Wrecker" with 7-3 Fire Charge melee attack. Levels into "Orcish Ravager" with 9-4 Fire Charge melee. Both would have less HP than their basic counterparts.

It would have a picture of an Orc with a torch.

[turin]

Why is it that all new orcish branches must play with fire?

We already have the goblin pillager, and now there are ideas for an orcish archer branch that uses fire, and an orcish grunt branch that uses it too... I don't have a problem with orcs using fire, but really, would they use it that much?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Why is it that all new orcish branches must play with fire?

We already have the goblin pillager, and now there are ideas for an orcish archer branch that uses fire, and an orcish grunt branch that uses it too... I don't have a problem with orcs using fire, but really, would they use it that much?

Because they like playing with fire!


Ressurection of an old, better idea:

Orcish Brute: 12-2 'stun' Impact melee.
Orcish L3 Brute: 14-3 'stun' Impact melee.

Where 'stun' is 'when this attack hits, the enemy loses all its remaining swings'.

[Assasin]

What? What? What??? Loses all of his remaining attacks?? I like it! Hey, can he be really big and strong? The Orcs like fire, because of its destructive power. If we do do this, we should make the undead more resistant to fire, as is stated in another topic. There should be a special attribute for the Goblin Pillager. Why can't they destroy villages??

[xtifr]

The stun idea is interesting, but aside from that, the "brute" seems a little too much like the main troll line. I was thinking of maybe an alternate upgrade to the grunt that does impact damage, but with more hits (for less damage each) than the trolls. Like maybe 11-3 impact (so it's a little better than the warrior, but doesn't have an upgrade). But then with three hits instead of two, "stun" might be too powerful. Anyway, "stun" seems like it would be more appropriate as a troll or ogre ability. An ability for the really BIG critters.

I like the fire-arrow proposal from another thread, but I agree that the northerners don't need a lot more fire beyond that. Fire is the drake's specialty. Orcs are for slamming and crushing and slicing and stabbing. Brutal, messy, up-close-and-personal ultraviolence, me droogies.

Be nice to have at least one upgrade for the sea orc too. A unit with NO upgrades whatsoever is just...wrong.

edit: maybe 8-4 impact would be better than 11-3.

I like Turin's ideas, except that I'd rather focus more on alternate level twos than on adding new level threes, as I think that woud be less likely to affect the balance of existing campaigns and such. So I'd rearrange his list like: 3, 5, 4, 1, 2. Or even 5, 3, 4, 1, 2. (I would really like to see an alternate grunt upgrade.)

[turin]

I don't think messing with balance of existing campaigns is a problem. The AI's units rarely level up, if ever, so it won't wreck balancing to make their level 2 orcs be able to level. And, the only campaign where you control orcs is SotBE, which is so unbalanced anyway it really wouldn't matter. It would, if anything, help matters, because it would make it worth it to level up your assassins and archers.

That said, the real reason my list went like that was, we already have the graphics for the two level 3 units I want to add. That is very, very important. If we don't have graphics, we don't have units. So, it seems to me like we should have the art people working on the alternative level 2s, while the devs debate adding the level 3 units; then, when the alternative level 2s are up to jetryl's standards, they can go on to being debated by the devs.
(hope all of that made sense. It does it me, but it might not to you...)

[scott]

I'd like to throw out a name for the L2 alternate upgrade for the orcish archer that uses fire: Siege Bow
I don't know how historical it is, but I figure the orcs have become skilled at attacking well-defended cities, and naturally they have their goblins use flaming arrows to help with that.

The whole idea is very similar to the goblin wolf riders by having one line that goes to L3 and a fire-using line that stays at L2. Racial consistency or lack of better ideas? You be the judge.

[Sangel]

I agree that the Slurbow and (Night)stalker should be added. I know the Stalker's graphics are up to par (I animated it myself from a Neorice original), and from memory the Slurbow was also a Neorice piece - at the very least, it was high quality.

I too would like to see an alternate upgrade for the Orcish Grunt, though proposals involving new abilities are unlikely to get far. So, as an evolution of EP's "Brute" idea...

L2 Orcish Slaver
Ball and Chain: 12-2 Impact Melee with Slow
Ball and Chain: 12-1 Impact Ranged with Slow

L3 Orcish Slavemaster
Ball and Chain: 13-3 Impact Melee with Slow
Ball and Chain: 13-2 Impact Ranged with Slow

This unit would be similar to the troll in that it does few, heavy melee damage hits, but would differ from the troll in its speed, HP, ranged and slowing attacks, and lack of regeneration.

It's also eminently feasible without code changes. The graphics would be, obviously enough, an orc with a ball and chain.

[scott]

A L2 alternate grunt upgrade could be something simple like another damage type. He could have a pike attack and a sword attack, or any other combination. Giving the orcish warriors subtle variety would be better than some new ability.