Cavalry charges

Kamamura · Post by **Kamamura** » January 19th, 2005, 1:12 pm

An idea for the "charge" special ability

The attacking unit should gain a bonus to his damage for each "plain-type" square (grassland, maybe even snow or sand) he travels in a straight line before attacking. That means a hex square can be charged only from six straight directions (if the attacker makes a turn just prior attacking, no bonus, even when travelling straight before).

The purpose of this is to simulate the mechanics of medieval knight charges (long distance = great effect). It might also bring some interesting tactical aspects - large plains will be more dangerous for non-cavalry units, scattered trees and such will be important for cover and so on.

Just a thought.

Post by **turin** » January 19th, 2005, 1:17 pm

HAMA(MB)*.

I don't think charging for 10 miles will be any different than charging for 2 miles, but that's just IMO...

also, this was how the specialty worked in the game Heroes of Might and Magic, and it was really annoying because it made you try to waste as many moves as possible with your knights before actually attacking. No extra skill is involved, but it makes the game more complicated (and annoying).

*: Hexes Are Miles Across (Maybe)

PDF · Post by **PDF** » January 19th, 2005, 5:16 pm

The problem I have with Charge is rather than it's more often a benefit to the target than to the attacker !

This is mainly linked to the fact that charge has generally 2 attacks while most units have 3 or more.
What about making it a more useful ability, for example by giving only +50% to defender vs 100% to attacker, or giving only the def bonus to the "countercharge" attacks ?

Post by **Sangel** » January 19th, 2005, 5:27 pm

PDF, I fear you misunderstand the nature of charge. Yes, it does mean you suffer more damage from the defender - a horseman charging a grunt will be suffering huge damage from every hit.

However, it is the very nature of the x-2 damage which makes charging units so potent. They deal huge damage on the first strike, before the enemy has a chance to retaliate. Similarly large damage is dealt on the second strike, when the enemy has had only one chance to retaliate.

Using this, you can easily kill wounded units without them ever having a chance to strike back - so long as they're in relatively poor defensive terrain.

That's what the point of charge is - and believe me, it makes horsemen and their brethren very, very powerful.

Post by **Dave** » January 20th, 2005, 1:56 am

PDF wrote:The problem I have with Charge is rather than it's more often a benefit to the target than to the attacker !

I'm afraid it sounds like you don't know how to use charging units effectively...

Units with charge, such as horsemen are some of the most powerful units available in the game. This is mainly linked to the attacker choosing the conditions of combat and getting to attack first.

David

Post by **quartex** » January 20th, 2005, 3:22 am

Charge is very powerful, but only is used right. Charge a dwarven stalwart in the mountains you'll have a dead horse. But at attacker gets to pick the terrain, and so if you attack a unit that is on bad defensive terrain (and preferably doesn't have a pierce melee attack) and is wounded, you have a great chance of killing him outright. Charge is a way of dsoubling your payoff, but you should only use it when the odds are in your favor. It's kind of like berserk, it increases the normal payoff and risk of combat. This can be both good and bad.

Post by **santi** » January 20th, 2005, 3:01 pm

Maybe charge hit percentage should be slightly increased on favorable terrain... 60% hit on grass is probably a bit too low IMHO

PDF · Post by **PDF** » January 20th, 2005, 4:17 pm

I wasn't complaining that charge is "too weak" or anything like that, but rather that there is no rationale for a charge to give double damage to all attacker and defender attacks.
A charging cavalryman will strike first with double damage, ok ! Then he *has* to fear the return attack if the grunt is still alive -> dbl damage too.

But then the charge is over, and everyone should get back to standard damage...

Post by **Darth Fool** » January 20th, 2005, 4:53 pm

PDF wrote:I wasn't complaining that charge is "too weak" or anything like that, but rather that there is no rationale for a charge to give double damage to all attacker and defender attacks.
A charging cavalryman will strike first with double damage, ok ! Then he *has* to fear the return attack if the grunt is still alive -> dbl damage too.

But then the charge is over, and everyone should get back to standard damage...

so based on your comments I take it that your suggestion would be that charge doubles the damage of the first strike for both the attacker and defender, not all strikes. I am not particularly opposed to this, but it would require rebalancing the units with charge and would make the code a little bit more ugly...